fn key not working in Bootcamp Windows 10 new MacBook Pro 16" 2019 model

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fn key not working in Bootcamp Windows 10 new MacBook Pro 16" 2019 model

Background: I had a MBP 2017 which I just upgraded to MBP 16" 2019 model. Both are running Catalina, and both have a Bootcamp partition with Windows 10 installed. The problem described here is for the Windows 10 installation on the new 2019 MBP.

I normally work with dual external monitors and a wired USB keyboard and wireless mouse. (Magic Mouse when in MacOS, Logitech with USB dongle when running Windows). Everything works the same when connected and the 2019 Mac is in clamshell using the external monitors and devices. BUT when I run Windows without the external devices, things are different on the built in keyboard.

On the 2017 MBP, the "fn" key works properly in Windows, brings up the F-keys, and the "delete" key can be used to delete forward (vs. backspace), or to delete mail messages from Outlook, or files from folders, etc.
On the 2019 16" MBP, the "fn" key does NOTHING. The F-keys do NOT appear the "fn" key is pressed, and are "delete" key functions only as a backspace in a document, or to move up a folder level. It does NOT delete (text) forward, nor does it delete files (I have to use CTRL+D or the right-click to "delete" to do that.

Obviously this is quite frustrating, since I am used to the functions of the "fn" key from the 2017 machine... but also because I can hit "delete" key on the extended USB keyboard when connected, but have no equivalent when only using the laptop keyboard itself (since the fn key is not working).

I DID try to use the Bootcamp control panel, and toggled the keyboard selection for what to do with the F-keys. But I don't want to have the F-keys on all the time, and the forward "delete" and delete files still does not work!

For the record: I used Winclone to migrate the Windows partition from 2017 to 2019 model, then assigned it a new Windows license. Which means I did NOT create a Bootcamp installation in the traditional manner, but I DID then install all the Windows Support files (downloaded from Bootcamp Assistant) after the migration.

I even re-downloaded and re-ran the Windows Support files installer after discovering this issue earlier in the week... to no avail.

Any thoughts or options are helpful... my call to Apple support yielded only the suggestion to call Microsoft (which is sure to be a waste of time... since they don't officially support Apple hardware 😊).

Thanks!!

MacBook Pro 16", macOS 10.15

Posted on Feb 26, 2020 9:56 AM

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Answer 1

Loner T

Level 9

59,596 points

Feb 26, 2020 6:42 PM in response to Eli Sherer

The newer Macs use a SPI (Serial Peripheral Interface) driver. A 2019 Mac uses USBc and should have 'bridged' connections. I recommend precautions when you remove drivers. Is your external USB2 keyboard connected via a USBc adapter?

Another option you may want consider, since you already have a Winclone image, is to remove the current Windows installation using BC Assistant, and re-installing a clean copy from the Microsoft W10 retail ISO and checking your keyboard functions. If they work correctly, then the 2017 image is the most likely culprit. The 2017 Macs do not use the T2 controller, while 2019 Macs do, which is a significant difference.

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Answer 2

Eli Sherer Author

Level 1

67 points

Feb 26, 2020 11:04 AM in response to Loner T

I did not... but had long conversations with Twocanoes on the issue. Turns out I had to turn off the T2 security on the new MBP, and then used Block Based backup and restore from Winclone.

Why would running SysPrep make any difference?

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Answer 3

Loner T

Level 9

59,596 points

Feb 27, 2020 5:55 AM in response to Eli Sherer

Boot into macOS, run BC Assistant -> Action -> Download and save the Windows Support software on a USB2 Flash drive.
Under About this Mac -> System Report and check under USB and SPI for peripheral devices. There is a Product Id and VID (PID/VID) for each device. Note down the values for your internal and external USB Keyboard.
Boot into Windows, and for each of the keyboards (PID/VID) check which one belongs to the internal keyboard.
In Windows Device Manager, note down the .INF file used to install each device. More than one device can be installed using a single INF. Uninstall and remove this device from Windows Device Manager.
Use PnPutil.exe to remove the corresponding drivers from DrvStore, using the INF files you have noted.
Install the correct BC driver from the USB2 Flash drive containing the correct 2019 drivers and test.

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Answer 4

Loner T

Level 9

59,596 points

Feb 26, 2020 10:40 AM in response to Eli Sherer

Did you run a SysPrep on the 2017 Winclone image, before it was restored to the 2019 MBP?

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Answer 5

Loner T

Level 9

59,596 points

Feb 26, 2020 12:46 PM in response to Eli Sherer

Eli Sherer wrote:

BUT, since I had to install (and re-install) the Windows drivers, would that not have wiped them all out anyway?

They are not wiped, unless explicitly removed. This can lead to driver conflicts. This behavior becomes obvious when a W7 installation is upgraded to W10 and the drivers for W7 and W10 on the same Mac cause issues. This is not the specific case here, but the behavior with a 2017 and a 2019 driver is very similar.

Can I remove/restore the Support drivers for the keyboard without having to start all over again??

Yes, and this should be method of isolating the issues. Be careful. You do not want to lose control of the Mac during this driver removal/re-installation process.

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Answer 6

Loner T

Level 9

59,596 points

Feb 26, 2020 11:07 AM in response to Eli Sherer

There are hardware differences between 2017 and 2019 MBPs, including the T2 controller. A SysPrep generalizes Windows and does not contain any drivers which may have come from the source.

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Answer 7

Eli Sherer Author

Level 1

67 points

Feb 26, 2020 9:04 PM in response to Loner T

The external keyboard is an old Mac Extended keyboard with a USB connection (via USB-C adapter).

There are two drivers in the Windows Support folder:

AppleKeyboardInternalUSB
AppleKeyboard

I was hoping maybe if I could find a way to remove ONLY the one for the internal keyboard (I assume the one that says "Internal" in the name), then maybe the AppleKeyboard will still work plugged in... maybe.

Meanwhile, what I really DON'T want to do is have to reinstall everything... since the Winclone image includes the WindowsOS, starting the whole thing again with Bootcamp Assistant will mean I cannot restore the Winclone image without wiping Windows out again and... back where we started.

BTW... thanks for being so helpful here...

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Answer 8

Loner T

Level 9

59,596 points

Mar 2, 2020 3:04 PM in response to Eli Sherer

Here is an example from a 2018 rMBP. Look under Human Interface Devices list, which will list Keyboards/Mice/Trackpads.

Apple Internal (built-in) Keyboard/Trackpad...

VID (Vendor ID) = 0x05ac, PID (Product ID) = 0x027b

and the corresponding W10 entry is...

Apple external USB Keyboard (which is also a hub)...

PID = 0x024f

and the corresponding W10 entry is...

If you had multiple external USB keyboards, you would need additional information to distinguish.

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Answer 9

Eli Sherer Author

Level 1

67 points

Feb 26, 2020 11:11 AM in response to Loner T

So... should I be contacting Winclone folks again?

Or can I take a backup of the NEW machine (using SysPrep) and then reload the drivers again?

BUT, since I had to install (and re-install) the Windows drivers, would that not have wiped them all out anyway? Can I remove/restore the Support drivers for the keyboard without having to start all over again??

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Answer 10

Eli Sherer Author

Level 1

67 points

Feb 26, 2020 5:19 PM in response to Loner T

Sorry... I'm confused. Why would I lose control of the Mac? I am asking if I should remove the Windows Drivers (using the install package, but somehow removing them from the Windows side). I am not sure how that would effect the Mac.

Did I miss something?

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Answer 11

Eli Sherer Author

Level 1

67 points

Feb 26, 2020 5:54 PM in response to Loner T

Ahh... now I see what you’re saying. But am I correct that there is a separate driver for the build in keyboard than from the USB keyboard I use externally?

in other words: if I remove the “internal”

keyboard driver (or even if I remove both), then when I plug in the USB keyboard again, Windows will pull and load a driver for it as a New device. Then I can reload the Apple support drivers for the internal keyboard.

Or I can just use the mouse for all of it... no?

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Answer 12

Eli Sherer Author

Level 1

67 points

Feb 27, 2020 7:03 AM in response to Loner T

Yikes!! Thanks for the complete details. I am not able to do this for a couple of days, aside from maybe looking for all the drivers to be sure I know where they are.

I will give it a shot over the weekend (Monday at worst), once I am certain I have clean and complete backups of both partitions. 😉

Fingers crossed... thanks!!

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Answer 13

Eli Sherer Author

Level 1

67 points

Mar 2, 2020 2:33 PM in response to Loner T

OK, so now I am nervous... I am not sure I am finding what you have said.

Which "Property" should I be looking at? I have four (4) keyboard divers installed in Windows Device Manager. I see Hardware IDs, Device Instance Path, etc. which mention "HID\VID... but I don't see PID/VID (unless I just have not found it).

I found the Internal and USB Keyboards on the Mac side... but cannot find a correlation to what I am seeing in Windows (which obviously means I am looking in the wrong place).

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Answer 14

Loner T

Level 9

59,596 points

Feb 26, 2020 5:48 PM in response to Eli Sherer

If you are booted in Windows, and remove the Keyboard driver, you will not have control of Windows, since there is no available Keyboard, correct?

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fn key not working in Bootcamp Windows 10 new MacBook Pro 16" 2019 model

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