Why is my LPX/UAD Brazilian guitar so “roomy”?

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Level 1

15 points

Why is my LPX/UAD Brazilian guitar so “roomy”?

I recorded and mixed a Brazilian guitar piece with just brushes on another track, and I mix it down, bounced it to a wave file but when I listen to it on my phone for example, the guitar sounds like it’s in a boxy room. I’m recording with several UAD Apollo plug-ins (oxide tape, 1176 compressor, et al) and am using the Townsend L22 modeling mic. I’m about 12 inches away from the mic. I like the sound of the guitar in my headset and in my studio monitors but when I play it back elsewhere, I’d like it more in my face.

Can I ask the community to give it a listen and give me some tips on how best to master using logic? If you are a UAD platform user, I would especially appreciate any plug-ins you might suggest to help me get there sonically.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9ji7sq1ystiuhj5/TTN_Samba_do_Aviao.wav?dl=0

Thank you

MacBook Pro 15", macOS 10.14

Posted on Mar 5, 2020 10:35 PM

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Answer 1

Top-ranking reply

Iaamusic

Level 4

1,420 points

Mar 6, 2020 1:07 AM in response to SFSaxguy

Is it just ambience from the actual recording or have you added more reverb/delay? You say it sounds ok on studio monitors?

i would take off all plugins, listen to the raw track, does it sound good then? If not is it the recording set up? Mic/room/spill etc, if that’s the issue I’d spend time getting that better. Obviously if you think you’ve recorded a keeper and can’t do it again then I’d be more likely to concentrate on selective EQ to minimize the “boxiness” resonances. I’d do this before applying compression etc etc. but everyone works differently, I tend to use as few plugins as I can getaway with.

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Answer 2

SFSaxguy Author

Level 1

15 points

Mar 7, 2020 1:22 AM in response to SFSaxguy

Yes, I cut a second mix and put the 2 (stereo) mics of the L22 in cardioid and you can hear the difference. Also, I removed even the faintest reverb I previously had since the room itself was enough, even though close mic’d, with the hardwood floors.

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Answer 3

DaCaptain

Level 4

1,054 points

Mar 6, 2020 8:31 AM in response to SFSaxguy

Nice playing, just awesome. BUT: Did you accidentally use the built-in or display microphone? If you're just a foot away, the sound should be in your face. But it's everywhere, like recorded with a pair of room mics.

Best,

DaCaptain

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Answer 4

DaCaptain

Level 4

1,054 points

Mar 16, 2020 1:30 AM in response to SFSaxguy

All versions sound pretty wide. My advice: Insert a correlation meter and see, if it show a values above 0,5. I have the impression, that the correlation is around 0 or below. I'd phase reverse one of the channels and see, if the stereo image corrects itself.

Which apollo interface do you use? Did you accidentally activate a phase reverse for one of the mic signals? Is the Mic calibration OK?

Best,

DaCaptain

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Answer 5

SFSaxguy Author

Level 1

15 points

Mar 6, 2020 7:42 PM in response to Iaamusic

I did have an LPX built in reverb although only up a very small amount, but realized I did not need any room as I was already in a good room for this guitar. I also pumped up a bit more on the Master buss compressor. I did another bounce. But see my reply to DaCaptain as it may just be exacerbated by the phone I was checking. Was just curious how it would sound in a variety of playback platforms. There are no other plugins on the two tracks (save for a mastering buss comp on the Output)

Thanks for the reply.

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Answer 6

Pancenter

Level 6

14,788 points

Mar 16, 2020 2:34 PM in response to SFSaxguy

Just wanted to add suppot for Flexis comment on the compressor. Regardless of the anything else and depending on the settings, a compressor will bring up room sound.

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Answer 7

SFSaxguy Author

Level 1

15 points

Mar 16, 2020 12:39 AM in response to Steffan Diedrichsen

Pretty sure I got that correct. You point the stereo sign toward sound source when you want a stereo image or point the Townsend logo part of the capsule when going for mono (even though you always have a stereo track set up in your DAW)

I Mixed 3 different versions at any rate and 3 is more up front now

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Answer 8

SFSaxguy Author

Level 1

15 points

Mar 16, 2020 1:33 PM in response to DaCaptain

Sure enough it was practically all the way to the left on that correlation meter. Thank you

Even with every plugin turned off (including the LSS/Putnam mic collection) the meter was way negative. So opened up the Putnam plugin and played with phase and off axis correction and got it to come back positive, then mixed a 4th version.

https://soundcloud.com/taylorfusion/sets/tayst-the-notes-performances

Still not happy with how roomy it sounds so I guess I did mess up some how in the actual recording. Thought I was supposed to set the mic parallel with my guitar (each capsule points L to R) for a stereo recording of my single guitar (fingers to the left, body of guitar on right).

Attached screenshots of playback with all plugins off and then corrected for off-axis

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Answer 9

Mar 16, 2020 3:04 PM in response to Pancenter

Thanks Pancenter.... stereo mic-ing is an art in itself, & not always the best solution for all situations, (which is why sometimes good ol' 'pan-centre' works best)!

I'm not familiar with the Townsend mic, but it does appear to allow some flexibility, (but would always recommend checking on headphones & a phase meter if working in stereo).

@ SFSaxguy, although not directly applicable to the L22, this may give you some insights for the future :

https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/7-stereo-miking-techniques-you-should-try/

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Answer 10

SFSaxguy Author

Level 1

15 points

Mar 16, 2020 12:54 AM in response to SFSaxguy

3 versions here: https://soundcloud.com/taylorfusion/sets/tayst-the-notes-performances

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Answer 11

SFSaxguy Author

Level 1

15 points

Mar 16, 2020 1:51 PM in response to SFSaxguy

I may stand corrected Steffan, thank you. DaCaptain also helped me out. I am learning how to use this new mic and its software.

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Answer 12

SFSaxguy Author

Level 1

15 points

Mar 6, 2020 7:28 PM in response to DaCaptain

DaCaptain, thanks.

No it's the L22 for sure as I can see it being monitored through. I'm beginning to think it's the way it sounds on my Android phone (and those puny speakers) as when I play it back on my desktop (and my powered monitors) it matches my mix platform. Nice and in-front. And I can hear the room I recorded in which is nice.

I do know there is "magic" in the Mastering process for truly recorded/released material. "EQ-ears" I'm sure are hard won over the years by the pros. Wish there was a plug-in for that!

I'll write UAD for an opinion too

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Answer 13

Mar 7, 2020 1:00 AM in response to SFSaxguy

Have you checked the polar pattern on your L22?

I've not listened to the recording, but from your description, it sounds like you've recorded with the mic in figure of 8 or omnidirectional mode, (which will pick up a lot of the room). Cardioid mode would give you a more focussed sound.

I notice that the Townsend/ UAD software allows you to alter the polar pattern after tracking, so maybe worth experimenting?

Here's a quick guide for mic polar patterns : https://ehomerecordingstudio.com/microphone-polar-patterns/

I'd also add that compression & limiting will bring up the levels of any room ambience, so maybe experiment with less.

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Answer 14

Mar 9, 2020 1:12 AM in response to SFSaxguy

Another idea: You hold it wrong!

If you use the LS22 as a stereo microphone, it need to point parallel to the guitar. This is described in detail in the user manual. If it points to the guitar, you have a kind of front/back stereo.

Or: you pressed a phase-inverse button. I checked with my TotalMix and if a flip the phase of one channel, the guitar sits in front.

Steffan

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Answer 15

SFSaxguy Author

Level 1

15 points

Mar 16, 2020 1:49 PM in response to DaCaptain

Note: Only mic collection I'm using now is the Townsend, until I sort out what I'm doing wrong during recording.

Here is a 5th mix with only the single mic version of the L22 mic collection. and I think it's much better.

https://soundcloud.com/taylorfusion/sets/tayst-the-notes-performances

Perhaps I did have the mic the wrong orientation for what I was intending to use during mix. I might have set the mic with Left facing me but then used the Townsend 180 plugin instead of the single mic version.

Please tell me what you hear now.

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