Why do we still need apps like AppCleaner to remove apps properly?

That is not my data. My data in my Home folder. I'm talking about files that are stored in Applications Support folders, Preferences folders, LaunchAgent and LaunchDaemon folders. If I am deleting an application why would I need its config data eating up space on my disk. LaunchAgents and LaunchDaemons will run processes associated with a deleted app that you may not want. For example, a menubar zombie or a process that keeps popping up a dialog about not finding its application.

If you happen to have infinite time, then I'm sure hunting down all this stuff doesn't require any time at all. But running down stuff can take 10 or 15 minutes doing searches and removals (some requiring password entry in order to remove them.)

Barney, you are free to dismiss this as having no value to you. That's your choice. I don't have a problem with it.

Because most apps install other files in other places than just the app in the Applications folder. Apps like AppCleaner know where to look for these other files and remove them whenever you remove the installed app. macOS does not provide the feature because it is provided by third-party apps. Want to do it manually? Here's a start:

Basics for Uninstalling Software

Most OS X applications are completely self-contained "packages" that can be uninstalled by simply dragging the application to the Trash.  Applications may create preference files that are stored in the /Home/Library/Preferences/ folder.  Although they do nothing once you delete the associated application, they do take up some disk space.  If you want you can look for them at the above location and delete them, too.

Some applications may install an uninstaller program that can be used to remove the application. If you cannot find the uninstaller then you could download the freeware, Easy Find, to locate files that need to be removed. The places you need to search include:

1. /Home/Library/Applications Support/ folder. Check if the application has created a folder then delete the folder that's in the Applications Support folder.
2. Applications may install a startupitem or a LogIn item. StartupItems are usually installed in the /Library/StartupItems/ folder or the /Home/Library/StartupItems/ folder.  Login Items are set in the Users & Groups preferences. Open it in System Preferences, then click on the Login Items tab. Select the item from the list and click on the Delete [-] button to remove it.
3. Some software use startup daemons or agents.  Look for them in /Library/LaunchAgents/ and /Library/LaunchDaemons/ or in /Home/Library/LaunchAgents/.

Some applications install a receipt in the /Library/Receipts/ folder.  Usually with the same name as the program or the developer.  The item generally has a ".pkg" extension.  Be sure you also delete this item as some programs use it to determine if it's already installed.

There are many utilities that can uninstall applications.  Here is a selection:

• AppZapper
• AppDelete
• Hazel
• AppCleaner
• CleanApp
• iTrash
• AppBolish
• AppUninstaller
• Uninstaller

For more information visit The XLab FAQs and read the FAQ on removing software.

I use AppCleaner and it works extremely well.

However, be very careful when deleting an app from a developer that if you have other apps from the same developer that could use some of the same support files. A good example is any of the MS Office apps or Adobe apps. If you let AppCleaner remove all of the found files you might kill one of the other apps from the same developer and have to do a reinstall from scratch of them. So it's very imported you see what's been found and how they might relate to other apps.

Apps like Firefox don't have installers but, when run, install a number of supporting files like these:

If I decide to not use Firefox any more I certainly wouldn't want to scrounge around forever finding all ofd those files to delete.

I think there are reasonable limits to what an OS does. Most of those in existence already do way more than necessary because users aren't competent or willing to do it themselves. Although a lot of Mac apps install other files, those files need not be removed. They only take up space. Smart developers include uninstallers with their apps. This is the traditional way of removing a not wanted app. They are needed because the app installs files that must be removed when the app is removed. This is why it isn't part of the OS. I don't know if Apple includes information in the Guidelines book for developers about uninstalling an app. You will find this is the same for Windows.

I would really think Mac users should be more savvy about what they are doing, although it would put us all out of business, eh?

We don't.

I've never used one.

Completely unnecessary.

Drag and drop apps can be trashed.

App Store Apps can be trashed.

If you don't know how to uninstall an app that comes on an installer package, don't install it.

Wonderful idea, Barney, if only it were feasible. Drag and Drop apps also install other files in other places. So do App Store apps, and they aren't removed by just trashing the app.

There are millions of Mac users posting here regularly but a handful of us helping out. We all know how to uninstall apps. There rest may not.

Maybe it would be nice if no one needed apps to help uninstall software but that isn't reality. I use an app uninstaller because it saves me time. I don't have to spend time hunting down all the supporting files and app installed. Not all apps exclusively use the Applications Support folder like they should.

Drag and Drop apps also install other files in other places. So do App Store apps, and they aren't removed by just trashing the app.

That is your "data." Why would you want it deleted? If you want to reinstall the app later, you'd want the config data you created for it.

If you don't care about it, it doesn't matter. It isn't doing anything to your Mac and it is hardly taking up any space at all.

I don't have to spend time hunting down all the supporting files and app installed

I don't spend any time doing it at all.

aeroflot wrote:

Or what am I missing here?

No app should be deleting some other app's data. There is no way that one app knows what another app's files should or should not look like. You can easily disable software this way.

There is no way to associate files with apps. Many "app zappers" will look for a file named like a bundle ID and delete it. But that file may not necessarily be part of that app's data. It may be an important system file. There may be other important files that aren't being deleted because there is no association.

In many cases, users will attempt to delete a file not because they want to uninstall it, but because they want to use it. A common misunderstanding is that reinstalling the software will correct problems. In most cases, it won't. But if users blindly run these "app cleaners" they may be deleting important settings for the software such as licensing, preferences, or other irreplaceable data.

In macOS Catalina, using an "app zapper" on some apps is guaranteed to leave zombie system extensions that cannot be removed except by turning off SIP and using the Terminal.

aeroflot wrote:

So there's room for Apple to do it better then I suppose? :)

Apple is doing it better. Apple requires that all Mac App Store apps be self contained. They can't store files anywhere other than their containers. Apple is also changing requirements of apps outside of the Mac App Store. In some cases, Apple is just "encouraging" developer to bundle things like login items inside the app. In other cases, Apple is actively deprecating old technologies, like kernel extensions, in favour of new ones, like System Extensions, that must reside inside the app bundle.

However, none of this changes the fact that Apple still relies on the app's bundle ID to associate apps with their containers or their system extensions. So when some "app cleaner" deletes "metadata" files, it is likely deleting files that Apple created to help the app run. When those files are unceremoniously removed, bad things can happen. There is non way to really know what those bad things are because those aren't tested.

The case of the new System Extensions is the one that I've encountered most recently. The only way to remove a system extension is to drag the app to the trash. If you use an "app cleaner", or even if the developer has a custom uninstaller, it will leave the system extension running, doing who knows what, out of control.

Essentially, Apple has dictated that the appropriate way to uninstall apps is to drag them to the trash. Developers who don't follow that model are likely to have problems. Or rather, their people who use their apps are likely to have problems. Apple has so many users that it can just let these old apps and their users die by natural selection. But if you are using some 4th party software to go in and delete some other app's file, then you are effectively selecting yourself out of the market. In this case, it isn't Apple's problem because they've already fix it. it isn't the developer's problem because they didn't do anything wrong. The user is left holding the bag wondering why their system is having problems.

aeroflot wrote:

Well, because i believe the need to dive into (hidden) library folders to find leftover app metadata is asking a little much of the average user. :)

Why are you asking them to do that? I don't bother doing it. No need.