huge discrepancy between size of time machine backup and content of fusion drive

After the initial backup of my new iMac I noticed a huge discrepancy between the size of the "full backup" made by Time Machine and the actual size of all files on the fusion drive. The difference is about 100 (one hundred) GB (220 instead of 320GB).


In the Options section of the Time Machine Preference pane the "Estimated size of full backup" seems to be correct, and is about 100GB larger than the actual initial Time Machine backup.


"System files and applications" are not excluded from the backup, and would never amount for a total of 100GB anyway.


I migrated all my applications, data, and settings from a MacBook Pro (running macOS High Sierra) to the iMac 27inch (2019) running macOS Catalina (10.15.4).


I remember clearly that on my MacBook Pro the size of the initial Time Machine backup was hardly any different in size than what the internal disk contained.


Is this a serious bug in Time Machine and/or macOS Catalina?

iMac 27", macOS 10.15

Posted on Apr 23, 2020 3:55 AM

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Apr 25, 2020 12:38 AM in response to Barney-15E

I have used three different ways to calculate the amount of storage that should be backed up by Time Machine.


First, there is the backup of the contents of my MacBook Pro (from which I migrated to an iMac two weeks ago).


Second, I checked the "Estimated size of full backup" in the Options panel of Time Machine's Preferences.


Third, I did a "Get Info" on a large number of folders that are high up in the hierarchy of the folder structure on my Fusion Drive.


I did these calculations last week and again three or four days ago, with the same, already known, result: almost 100GB is missing on the Time Machine backup disk. However, yesterday I had some free time and tried to acquaint myself with the new "Podcasts" app and how all the hundreds of podcasts that I had collected and saved on my hard disk (using iTunes) during the last 14 years or so, were migrated to this new environment. I found out that all podcasts had been moved from their previous (and still existing but now empty) folder structure under the iTunes Media folder, to a new folder:


~/Library/Group Containers/243LU875E5.groups.com.apple.podcasts


When I checked out this new folder, I noticed that all the podcasts had been gathered (without any organised folder structure) into a sub-folder called "Cache"...


Knowing how Time Machine ignores "caches", I immediately checked if this folder and all the podcasts it contains, existed on my Time Machine backup drive. To my surprise this folder, including its subfolders, was indeed backed up but without any of its podcasts!


In other words: the folder and subfolders of ~/Library/Group Containers/243LU875E5.groups.com.apple.podcasts are backed up by Time Machine, but the contents of the "Cache" folder inside this structure, meaning the podcast files themselves, are not backed up! In my case this amounts to over 80GB and does explain part of the huge discrepancy I talked about in my original post.


I find this very problematic, because if ever the 80GB of podcasts that I collected over all these years, would get lost or deleted by accident, there is absolutely no guarantee that I can download any of these podcasts again. And I'm not even talking about the time it would take to download all of them once again. Where I live the download speeds are ridiculously low! Podcasts saved locally should be backed up by Time Machine like any other file within the Users folders and subfolders!

Apr 23, 2020 4:16 AM in response to Deep Sky Diver

Deep Sky Diver wrote:

After the initial backup of my new iMac I noticed a huge discrepancy between the size of the "full backup" made by Time Machine and the actual size of all files on the fusion drive. The difference is about 100 (one hundred) GB (220 instead of 320GB).

In the Options section of the Time Machine Preference pane the "Estimated size of full backup" seems to be correct, and is about 100GB larger than the actual initial Time Machine backup.

"System files and applications" are not excluded from the backup, and would never amount for a total of 100GB anyway.

I migrated all my applications, data, and settings from a MacBook Pro (running macOS High Sierra) to the iMac 27inch (2019) running macOS Catalina (10.15.4).

I remember clearly that on my MacBook Pro the size of the initial Time Machine backup was hardly any different in size than what the internal disk contained.

Is this a serious bug in Time Machine and/or macOS Catalina?



And is this an issue for you? How does this impact the actual backup?


It is best to let TM do it's thing—why try and second guess the magic behind the curtain,

If you think it should be different, then erase/reformat the drive and start a new.


If you need to create a new backup from Mac—https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/if-you-need-to-create-a-new-backup-mh34042/10.14/mac/10.15


Catalina introduces a new 2 volume file organization

About the read-only system volume in macOS Catalina - Apple ...




Independent of this —always recommended TM is not your only backup:


3-2-1 Backup Strategy: three copies of your data, two different methods, and one offsite.


Boot clone https://discussions.apple.com/docs/DOC-10081

How to use Time Machine to back up or restore your Mac: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201250

Use DiskUtility Restore feature https://support.apple.com/guide/disk-utility/restore-a-disk-dskutl14062/mac

note: >System Preferences>Security & Privacy >Privacy>Full Disk Access

unlock the padlock, press the + button and add Disk Utility





Back up your Mac with Time Machine: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201250


Apr 24, 2020 6:00 AM in response to Deep Sky Diver

How are you calculating the amount of storage used on your drive?

Almost nothing does a good job of determining actual storage used, especially with home folders having two different mount points in the file system.

The Storage display in About this Mac is horribly bad at it.

I haven't figured out if Get Info is correct. It generally includes local snapshots, which would not be backed up.

Apr 23, 2020 8:38 AM in response to leroydouglas

Mr leroydouglas,


I presume you haven't yet understood how serious this "issue" is. It's a huge problem considering the fact that Time Machine is no longer reliably backing up everything it needs to back up and tells the user it is going to back up (the "Estimated size of full backup"). Perhaps losing 100GB of content of *your* internal drive is not an issue for *you*, but considering there is almost 15 years of work on *my* fusion drive and Time Machine is no longer backing it all up, I see this as a serious bug inside an OS that millions of us are using and have to rely upon.


That sufficiently answers your first question. Your second question puzzles me even more. Of course, Time Machine "missing" 100GB out of 300GB to be backed up, has a serious impact on the initial backup because that one and all consecutive, incremental backups, are simply incomplete and can thus not be relied upon. In other words, Time Machine has just become totally useless.


I must admit that your comment that "it is best to let Time Machine do its thing", made me laugh out loud. I used to work as a support engineer for one of the biggest software companies out there, and I can assure you that letting software programs ("apps" as they are now so cutely called) do their own thing without checking that they are doing that "thing" consistently and reliably, was the mother of all computer disasters and often also of the loss of years of hard work.


I didn't try and "second guess" the "magic behind the curtain". I followed a series of facts and used logic to come to the conclusion that Time Machine is not backing up the whole drive of my iMac, missing one third (!) of the "Estimated size of full backup". There is no such thing as magic in software, but I will admit there are nowadays many curtains (way too many) to hide serious mistakes from being taken care of.


Again, you are mistaken. I do not "think" that Time Machine is missing 100GB, I have actual and factual proof, looking at the total size of all files on my Fusion Drive and the total size on Time Machine's backup drive - telling me there is 100GB less on the backup drive. And no, this is not due to cache files or such, I have checked everything out long before I posted about this huge problem. And actually, yes, I did start with a newly formatted backup drive. And no, I'm not going to start anything anew because I have work to do and debugging software made by Apple is not part of that, I'm afraid.


Your links have absolutely nothing to do with the problem I posted about. And thank you for giving me advice not to rely on Time Machine as the only backup solution. You will understand that I'm not a beginner in computing and that I do make a bootable copy of the internal drive of my computers at regular intervals - however not every hour, nor every day.


In short: I need Time Machine to backup everything it is supposed to back up, and the huge discrepancy of 100 (one hundred!) GB needs a far better explanation than "it's Time Machine doing its magic behind the curtain". I don't need a magician, I need an operating system that works flawlessly, especially when it comes to creating and managing backups.

Apr 23, 2020 11:14 PM in response to leroydouglas

FYI: Erasing and reformatting the external Time Machine backup drive (for the second time) did not solve the problem. I am still missing around 100 GB that is present on the internal Fusion Drive but is not being backed up. The "Options" panel in the Time Machine Preferences calculates the size of the full backup correctly but the initial Time Machine backup "misses" 100 GB and subsequent incremental backups do not include those 100 GB either.

Apr 23, 2020 8:58 AM in response to Deep Sky Diver

Deep Sky Diver wrote:

In short: I need Time Machine to backup everything it is supposed to back up,

I need an operating system that works flawlessly, especially when it comes to creating and managing backups.




Catalina seems to have issues with Time Machine—


Time machine certainly seems to be half backed in the latest macOS, and issues abound.


Your best bet with Catalina is start a new Time Machine backup. Even if this mean erase/reformat the external for a fresh start and an empty Drive. GUID/HFS+


more examples of ongoing issues:


https://eclecticlight.co/2020/02/17/time-machine-14-diagnosing-and-working-around-slow-backups/


Time Machine issues since upgrading to Catalina - https://discussions.apple.com/thread/250754046


Catalina Time Machine restores stall near completion - https://discussions.apple.com/thread/251157812





 you can send your UX and expectations with the TM software—

Send Apple Feedback http://www.apple.com/feedback

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huge discrepancy between size of time machine backup and content of fusion drive

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