Level 1

55 points

Getting Wifi to Studio from House

I am picking up on a thread that I got a lot of help with about two months ago.

To recap: I am trying to get wifi to my art studio that is about 300 feet across open ground from my house. Finally getting around to this, because with Covid-19, folks want me to teach video classes from the studio.

Consensus on that past thread was that I should get the Netgear Orbi AC3000. I will connect the satellite via ethernet and place it in a porch window that has clear line of sight to the studio. I will then put another AC3000 satellite either in the studio window (with clear line of sight back to the porch) or put an AC3000 outdoor satellite on a utility barn which is also in clear line, and about 3/4 of the way to the studio (thus bridging somewhat). If this set up fails, consensus was that then I could try a point to point system (recommendation was one of these: https://www.ui.com/airmax/nanostationm/ though I wouldn't know which to get... I'll cross that bridge if I come to it).

Consensus was that I should also avoid the AX6000 for now. I have seen reports of issues. Since that last thread, the AX4200 has come out, and it is getting great reviews. Only issue is that you can't by additional satellites for the system, just the router and one satellite package.

So makes sense to stay with the prior plan? I think I would likely get the outdoor unit, since it give more flexibility. Or should I be waiting until Netgear either updates the firmware of the AC3000 to be compatible with the AX systems or the AX4200 single satellites are for sale? Getting ready to pull the trigger, so started a new thread before I shell out the money. Thank you in advance.

iMac 27", macOS 10.15

Posted on Apr 23, 2020 10:15 AM

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LaPastenague

Level 9

67,262 points

Posted on Apr 23, 2020 2:01 PM

There are, as always, "many ways to skin the cat." Not that I have attempted discovering truth or otherwise of the proverb.

So makes sense to stay with the prior plan?

I vaguely remember the previous discussion. Reading through your post my opinion has not altered.

Although I am not so wrapped in your idea of the AC3000 external satellite on the barn at the 3/4 point. My concern would be using the wireless inside the studio is based solely on your construction used in the building. Many modern buildings are wrapped in foil coated insulation. An excellent way to totally block radio waves. (Hence the foil hat on your head recommendations).

TEST TEST TEST .. before you outlay any money setup a cheap wireless router in the barn location. Use a wireless analyser and see how much signal you get in the studio.

Big EDIT.. I started the post before your second post.. good to see you are thinking in the right direction. I will leave the original content.

Little Edit. Bars on a phone is NOT really good enough. You really want actual dB signal loss.. as that stays constant no matter what bars are doing.

The test is simple to do. It won't matter if the wireless router has no internet connection.. if you don't have anything suitable buy a $10 used router. Do use AC wireless to find the loss at 5ghz.

Just load the analyser onto a laptop or phone.. I have taken to using netspot free version lately.

Measure the signal at the barn say within 3M of the router. That gives you a baseline. (you are measuring differences not absolute values).

Measure it outside the studio.. subtract from baseline.. That gives you loss at the range.

Measure it inside the studio.. at the position you would be using the system. Again subtract value from baseline. If the loss goes up dramatically your studio insulation or building material is causing heavy signal attenuation. You should be using some other method.

Certainly for a high speed connection the original AC3000 is great buy. I have heard terrible stories of the AX versions. AX is still in Gen1 products. My advice is wait for Gen2.

One other point.. I would expect the Netgear to last 3 years.. minus lighting stikes etc. Plan for the investment to be recurring.

If this was commercial setup.. I would not recommend consumer products. I think a pro would recommend fibre optic cable. Or Ubiquiti Airmax units. etc.

I am not sure how important internet will be to the operation of studio and teaching classes as a money making exercise.

As soon as you turn commercial, you don't buy consumer stuff to make videos. Same with networking (or anything).

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34 replies

DanG77 Author

Level 1

55 points

Apr 25, 2020 7:16 PM in response to LaPastenague

Just did a quick speed test using speedtest.net. Download was 850.27 Mbs. Upload was 938.54 Mbs.

Have the Orbi AC3000 in hand. Will set up in the next couple of days. Hoping the set up is easy. The satellite will service dead spots on the second floor (my wife's teaching has become moved into the video world like us all, alas).

NanoBeam 5ghz is ordered. Hoping its set up learning curve is not too steep (I've been studying up on it a bit). the line of sight is pretty clear (will remove a few offending small branches to be sure). The soon to be repurposed Apple Airport Extreme Base Station (latest generation) will become the access point in the studio.

I guess I will also move into the world of video teaching (done online university teaching before, but never studio classes). It's a new world.

Thank you so much for your help in all this. I really appreciate it.

DanG77 Author

Level 1

55 points

Apr 26, 2020 1:05 PM in response to DanG77

Here's an odd thing. Just installed the Orbi Router and Satellite. Was simple. The app on the iPhone pretty much did it all step by step, no need to have watched the YouTube videos on set up. However, I had done a speed test with my laptop in the room adjacent to my office and upstairs (right next to where the satellite is placed) both with the latest generation Apple Airport Extreme Base Station before Orbi set up, and with the Orbi after set up. I thought my speeds would be much faster with the Orbi, but they are actually a wee bit slower. I know there are other variables that may be coming into play though (internet traffic, etc.).

DanG77 Author

Level 1

55 points

Apr 26, 2020 1:26 PM in response to LaPastenague

Yes, Satellite gets a strong signal. Is just one floor above the router. Did a speed test from right next to the Satellite, A bit slower than Airport Base Station Alone, from the room below. Satellite is getting a strong signal.

The speed test from the adjacent room is next to the room with the router. The Airport Base Station was removed, unplugged before I set up the Orbi. Again, the prior reading was just a bit faster. Odd.

Apr 26, 2020 3:27 PM in response to DanG77

Let me think it through. And I have to ask a heap of questions.

Starting from your internet speed which is spectacular btw.

Just did a quick speed test using speedtest.net. Download was 850.27 Mbs. Upload was 938.54 Mbs.

You are on a gigabit connection.. i am turning green.. face muscles are twitching.. I live in a backwater called Australia.

So I cannot imagine any slowdown from the connection itself.. certainly very little on the internet will feed data to you at that rate. The interlinks are just not that great, and shared by thousands of people.

What speed were you getting over wireless from your Gen6 Extreme over wireless. Please do the test again by reinstating the Extreme if you cannot remember. Also the speed and particularly link details of the wireless from your wife's location where she is having dropouts.

Now just to be clear.. A single point router is faster than mesh close up.

The AC3000 netgear is based on high speed backhaul but only two stream connection to clients. So 866Mbps max.. whereas the AC extreme will give you 1300Mbps max at close range.

Plus the mesh is still double hop wireless.. it is not BAD like the old extend wireless systems.. i.e. half the speed.. but it will still never match wired connections or a single hop wireless.

Now at a range where speed is definitely poor from the single point router.. that is where the mesh system should come into its own. It should give you really good speeds and stable connection.. vs normal single point wireless router.

If that is not happening, then something is messed up in the Netgear configuration.

I would test this in two stages..

First plug ethernet to suitable computer from satellite so you remove the second hop wireless and can measure just the backhaul speed. If this is low then that is going to need fixing. And I am unable to help with details.. sorry. You will need to talk to Netgear support.

I would make sure all the units are on latest firmware. I would also not trust phone apps to give best setup. The reason to recommend the AC3000 is the built in setup gui is available unlike cheaper mesh units.

If you get high speed on the backhaul then check the wireless link on the wife's computer is working properly, with connection at 5ghz (not falling back to 2.4ghz) with actual speeds of 400Mbps or above and decent signal levels.

Then compare that with the link speed the Extreme was giving you in that location. It is sometimes possible that the link is still better to the extreme.. but it is unstable and drops out all the time.

NOTE.. I don't and won't use mesh. I am happy to use mesh units with wired backhaul. But all my tests of wireless systems has led me to the conclusion wired is so far superior it is always going to disappoint me going wireless. In situations where people cannot or will not wire the house.. mesh is still the best alternative. But against a wired setup it is always second best.

DanG77 Author

Level 1

55 points

Apr 26, 2020 3:48 PM in response to LaPastenague

Thanks for your great response again. Yes, I am lucky. Dirt road, rural spot, but they ran fiber optic to us a few years back (this in a state where many folks still don't even have internet). Yes, firmware is up to date. My main computer is connected via ethernet cable anyway, and that is where I most need the speed.

Your note comports with my tests. The slow down is modest near the router; I just expected it to be faster, not slower. But you've explained why this is. And it is also modesty slower in the room just above the room with the main router (even though I am standing right next to the satellite which is there for now), but this makes sense too as the AE Base Station probably had little trouble broadcasting to here. Satellite is not currently connected via ethernet. In the room where things were slow, on the second floor, barely a signal, wife's office, now there is a big improvement.

So tests using wifi with my laptop (obviously tests with AE Base Station meant there was no satellite running).

In the parlor (room adjacent to office with router): With AE Base Station: Download 318.23 mbs Upload 225.41

With Orbi: Download 228.xx mbs Upload 121.xx

In room above the office w/ router, next to satellite: With AE Base Station: Download 271.00 mbs Upload 226.13

With Orbi: Download 225.xx mbs Upload 168.xx

Wife's office, 2nd floor end of house away from office/router: With AE Base Station: Download 93.15 mbs Upload 58.35

With Orbi: Download 192.xx mbs Upload 112.xx

So in the room where it matters, a big improvement. I will move the satellite into this room (wife's office) and connect with an ethernet cable soon as well, so even a bigger improvement. I will plug my laptop into the satellite as well, just to see.

And another change (interesting variables), test on desktop which is connected via ethernet are different right now than last night. Download 936.98 mbs (so faster). Upload 648.09 mbs (so somewhat slower).

The setup was so easy and seamless.

DanG77 Author

Level 1

55 points

May 3, 2020 7:35 PM in response to LaPastenague

The NanoBeams are configured to use DHCP in the Network settings. I can check tomorrow if that took hold.

I will follow your other advice step by step as well. Hope Tesserax might have some thoughts too. Thanks... I'll report back.

Gaining ground on this. The set up was a bit funkier than it should have been... some things just didn't "hold on", but I got it squared away eventually except for this matter.

DanG77 Author

Level 1

55 points

May 4, 2020 8:05 AM in response to LaPastenague

I did exactly as you said (took note of the IP address and values when connected to the network, entered them manually and reconnected to the NanoBeam studio. It worked!

I am not exactly sure what "If it works the setup is failing but is simple to fix once you put the Airport Extreme on the Studio end.. simply set it with static IP and a DHCP only setup for Network" means... I can kind of get it. When on my home network I use wifi for the laptop anyway... never plug it in. Only did this as a test. But I do want to be sure the AE Base Station (now set to bridge mode) can work properly in the studio.

DanG77 Author

Level 1

55 points

May 4, 2020 8:20 AM in response to Tesserax

Thanks, Tesserax. My setup is pretty similar to yours. I am able to manage the devices through the UNMS IOS app, or when accessing them through this app, I take note of each devices IP address. This allows me to manage them on my desktop computer browser. I in fact took screen captures of every page of the configuration for each device as reference and also backed up both configurations to my desktop computer.

Re: the laptop connecting to the Studio NanoBeam via ethernet: It is strange, if I enter the IP address either manually or set the laptop to DHCP with IP address entered manually (I don’t even need to enter an IP address here) the laptop connects via ethernet cable to the studio NanoBeam. But if I revert back just to DHCP the laptop cannot connect via ethernet cable.

I want to be sure I have the AE Base Station, now set to bridge mode, so it works in the studio. I guess I'll see how it goes. I don't want to have to spring for a Ubiquiti AP for the studio... again, we'll see.

DanG77 Author

Level 1

55 points

May 4, 2020 9:52 AM in response to Tesserax

Thanks. I'd watched some of his videos, and few others, but not this one. Basically confirms my setup. Some minor things have been updated in the web portal interface (available settings and what not). Seems I basically have it set up correctly. Not sure why I am getting the funny result when I try to connect the laptop. May be an Apple issue (as others have had the problem from time to time in other situations). Hope it doesn't affect the AE Base Station.

May 4, 2020 2:56 PM in response to DanG77

Let me explain how to setup the Airport Extreme.

This is a bit tricky but will manage the studio and make the connection work without any issues. Everything will go back to DHCP.

It is much easier if I give you specific instructions, with actual IP addresses rather than just an example. So before I get started I need some info. What IP your main router is setup to and what DHCP settings it has.

And I want you to make a small adjustment to DHCP range in the main router if it has used the entire range of addresses.

I have forgotten btw what model your main router is.. could you just fill me in on that. Not that it matters.

You can also just give me screenshots.

So I want your routers home IP address. For Apple it is 10.0.1.1 Most other major brands use 192.168.0.1 or 192.168.1.1

And on the DHCP server setup it will show the DHCP scope.. Apple uses 10.0.1.2 -10.0.1.200 Most major brands use every available address so 192.168.1.2-254. What I want you to do is cut that down a bit.. make it 200 as the top address like the Apple router does so I can use addresses above 200.

Hope that makes sense.

You can also post a screenshot of the setup of the nano beam. You can send that directly to me if you like. Nothing in that is public nature so it is all address and settings on your private network but up to you.

[Email Edited by Moderator]

DanG77 Author

Level 1

55 points

May 5, 2020 8:09 AM in response to LaPastenague

Thanks, don't think I'll need it. All seems to be working in the test setup. Also, laptop is now connecting via DHCP (I had made a simple goof in connecting). So all good for now. Thanks for your help again.

Tesserax

Level 10

158,592 points

Apr 24, 2020 12:31 PM in response to DanG77

Here's the link to the bridge I was referring to:

https://store.ui.com/collections/unifi-network-routing-switching/products/unifi-building-to-building-bridge

DanG77 Author

Level 1

55 points

Apr 25, 2020 6:10 AM in response to DanG77

Also, I misspoke above. I have fiber optic cable (maybe fiber optic DSL?, not sure). Whatever it is, it is fiber optic and pretty much as fast as it gets for homes.

May 5, 2020 1:33 PM in response to DanG77

Ok.. great work.

Just as a matter of interest what speed do you get from the studio to internet with this setup??

DanG77 Author

Level 1

55 points

Apr 24, 2020 7:55 AM in response to LaPastenague

Thanks, Teserax and LaPastenague.

Based on both your responses, a a UniFi Building-to-Building Bridge seems to make the most sense, and removes the doubt factor about trying to pass the signal through the side of the studio (LaPastenague's concern, among others). There was some thought in this direction of the prior thread. I will still do the db signal loss test recommended just because... it sounds helpful.

The Unifi Bridge will likely be less expensive than the AC3000 outdoor Satellite (even with it on sale).

I won't pull the trigger on anything until I report back on the signal loss.

Teserax, your link isn't working for me. Can you or anyone recommend the Unifi model I should use?

I will still get the AC3000 router and satellite pair (as recommended in the last thread), as I have a weak spot on the second floor of the house and an easy way to run ethernet to it, which may not even be necessary though. This will increase my second floor coverage and wifi generally. I will then use my Airport Extreme Base Station (in bridge mode?) in the studio connected to the Unifi receiver. The AC3000 will be an upgrade, as some noted (I may try the Satellite in the porch still to see what happens since I'll be running ethernet cable there anyway, again as recommended in the prior thread).

Again, I'll test first, and consider the options. Any specific recommendations on a Unifi model gladly accepted.

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Getting Wifi to Studio from House