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The Keynote will be available to stream on apple.com, the Apple Developer app, the Apple TV app, and the Apple YouTube channel. On-demand playback will be available after the conclusion of the stream.
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My Avira application on MBP needs to be updated to continue to work with the future OS after Catalina. But the Mac security system cancelled the update Avira tried to install.. Can I prevent this happening?
MacBook Pro 15", macOS 10.15
NONETHELESS. I work a lot with people with PCs so have to be careful about what I send them. It would be professionally damaging to send people malware.
And for you, that is a good reason. Many professional organizations require AV software on all computers, no matter what OS they're running, for just that reason.
It appears ransom software is a big threat for Macs too.
Ransomware is extremely rare on the Mac. The few that exist are also all Trojans. If you happen to download and install one, the AV software will once again fail you completely. The ransomware will already be active and busily encrypting your drive. That is an extremely poor time to be told after the fact.
Anyone who's used computers as long as yourself, myself and many others already know, or should know the very simple steps needed to discard the need for any AV software:
Basically, it's what Barney-15E already mentioned. Using your head is your best defense since AV software will not, and cannot always come to the rescue. Such software is really only helpful at making users lazy about keeping track themselves. The less you know about possible threats, the more useless AV software is because the user then relies on it as a crutch, and it will eventually fail you.
It hasn't caused problems till now in the years I've had the free version. I find it less space devouring than Sophos. I'mnot one of those who says you don't need protection. Precautionary principle.
I can't remember the exact wording, something about Sophos trying to install software on the system,. The problem was that there was no button to overrule it and allow the installation. It was at least two months ago. Since then Avira has not tried to update the version as I had hoped it would. Then 3 or 4 days ago I received a warning from the Mac OS that the Avira extension needed to be updated! The irony of it...
It hasn't caused problems till now in the years I've had the free version. I find it less space devouring than Sophos. I'mnot one of those who says you don't need protection. Precautionary principle.
I'm precautionary, too. I learned how not to install malware.
Then 3 or 4 days ago I received a warning from the Mac OS that the Avira extension needed to be updated! The irony of it...
If you are referring to the "legacy" system extensions message from your original post, then you have nothing to do, and there isn't an update. It is telling you that your outdated software uses a kernel extension which will not work in the next major OS. A kernel extension is a "legitimate" hack to the operating system to enable features not available in the OS. Apple is removing the ability for third-party developers to use kernel extensions because they are so incredibly bad at making them.
So, if you choose to move to the next OS when it is released, you would need to get an updated version of Avira that doesn't need to hack the OS to work. Or, you could just learn to not install malware.
OK, I made a copy of the original message and have now found it with the aid of Spotlight. It carried the symbol of the house with the disc in the centre, like the dial of a safe. The text said:
"System Extension Blocked
A program tried to load new system extension(s)
signed by "Avira Operations GmbH & Co. KG" that
need to be updated by the developer."
The irony of the message is overwhelming. If they said it needed updating, why then did they stop it from doing so?
The only button on the message was OK, for one to click to acknowledge and get rid of the message.
There is an incredibly patronising tone in your reply. I have learned long ago how not to install malware on my computer. And there is an update, that is what it was trying to install. Are you authorised by Apple to try and insult people in this way or do you merely do so out of a sense of self-importance? The fact that I, like you, prefer a precautionary principle does not authorise you to treat me as some total ignoramus. And even if I were, an upbringing in good manners would have impeded you from attempting to do so.
I am well aware that the last message was a warning that the system extension was outdated and would not work with the coming OS.
You have failed to answer the query, which was whether I have a way of preventing the blocking of the installation.
And sorry for the mistake in the original post. It should have referred to Avira, not Sophos, trying to install a new system extension. I could swear I corrected that one before posting but the mistake seems to have stayed in...
Are you authorised by Apple to try and insult people in this way or do you merely do so out of a sense of self-importance?
I don't work for Apple, so I don't imagine they have "authorized" me to do anything. I am rather self-important, though.
If you are not an "ignoramus," why do you need Avira?
If the message said you need to Allow it, then you would go to the Security & Privacy System Preferences and click the Allow button on the General tab. The Allow button has a limited response time, maybe 30 minutes. After that, you would have to reinstall the app so that it requests to load the extension again.
Didn't you read the full message I posted? If you had, you would have seen it did not say anything about any need or possibility to allow it. I have with non-Apple applications used the procedure that you talk of a few times already to allow their installation.
Glad you admit to the self-importance. Sadly in your case it seems to have so gone to your head so much that you no longer bothered to read the Apple warning message quoted closely enough. Sad that you now seem to have passed your 'use by' date. Arrogance is a remarkably counter-productive trait, especially on a helpline site.
All I can say is uninstall AVIRA and all such third party antivirus apps. They are not needed, they may cause issues, and they use system resources while providing no benefit. But I doubt you will heed my advice.
The message seems to indicate Avira is trying to put a kernel extension here:
/System/Library/Extensions/
That folder has been entirely off limits to anything but the OS itself since at least High Sierra. All third party apps must use the root Library folder at:
/Library/Extensions/
It's either that, or you already had a kernel extension in the System folder in an older OS where it was allowed, and then jumped to Catalina where it will be automatically disabled with no possible way to enable it.
Other than that, you are entirely wasting system resources protecting yourself against nothing. There are no Mac viruses. None. Nada. Zero. Not since the inception of OS X, 10.0. The underlying Unix system makes it nearly impossible for self replicating software to install itself. And with the entire System folder set as read only in Catalina, it is now even closer to literally impossible.
Yes, there are Trojans. Lots of them. But a Trojan is something the user must install in some manner, whether you realize you're doing it or not. There is no AV software - none - that will make ever the slightest attempt at stopping you from installing one. Only rarely will they even mention you've done so. Yeah, thanks for letting me know after the fact.
In short, typical AV software is 100% useless on a Mac. They eat up system resources with zero benefit to you. The one and only plus they have going for them is they may occasionally detect Windows malware in an email. But what do you care? Or, more plainly put: Why should you bog down your system protecting anyone you may forward such an email to? Let them protect their own computers.
Thank you, Kurt Lang, for your theory about kernel extensions. I will be 'contacting' Avira indirectly about where and why things went wrong, but there is no real 'Support' from the company as it's a free app, so there's merely a website where skilled users give advice as here.
I have used Avira, as I did Sophos earlier, to detect malware particularly in files transferred from other computers. I have known for many years that there are no viruses for Macs, or at least since the 1990s. I am also aware that one should be careful about what one downloads, especially in mails, and am good at detecting fishing attempts and fake warnings from Apple, Amazon etc. in the mail. I know too that Apple protects against past Trojans whenever it produces a new OS. NONETHELESS. I work a lot with people with PCs so have to be careful about what I send them. It would be professionally damaging to send people malware. I also read the Sophos site regularly to find out the latest frauds and threats. What I note is that there are some Mac experts who recommend protection, others who seem dead against it. It appears ransom software is a big threat for Macs too. I hope Avira might be able to detect a trojan or two, although touch wood I have been careful or lucky enough over the years to avoid such things. I have had Macs for 30 years now. And I would rather be told after the fact than never told at all...
FWIW, your organization should receive some training if they are relying on third party apps to protect their computers. Modern operating systems, Windows and MacOS have built-in protection. Third party inferior apps disable these built-in protections. Your clients will not be happy when your futile attempt at protecting Windows users results in lost data, lost time, and corrupted files.
If your organization and clients are depending on Mac users to protect their Windows computers there is something seriously wrong with your approach to IT and related safety.
Thank you. I am not part of an organisation but I do have clients and acquaintances. Some of those clients or acqs have very little knowledge of PC security. It is not my job to teach them and it would not be appreciated if I tried. I remain somewhat sceptical that what is considered the best of German defensive software would destroy the built-in defences on my Mac. But of course if you have any articles re Avira that claim that, feel free to post links and I will definitely read them and decide on that basis.
I am rather more sceptical too of the idea that somehow the articles I send in .odt or Word format or the .jpg pics are going to destroy the protection on my clients PCs. Some protection were that to be true! I have never yet had such a complaint from anyone either.
The only malware my searches have found, except those in the mail boxes in attachments, has been in webpages saved by my browser, but that was over a decade ago. Malware for PCs in the structure of the page.
Thank you for your post and suggestions. You are right to suppose I know all those rules. But I'm sure you are right to report them here, as they cannot be said too often and someone could learn something valuable.
Re Ransomware, I really cited it to show that threats to Macs do exist. I did not think however that Avira would stop it. One would probably require for that the Sophos protection especially created for that purpose. Expensive.
I have heard beforehand the argument that defensive software makes people lazy. That may be true of some people but we are all different. Reading about the threats on the Sophos site has made me very much aware of the dangers and there is excellent advice there on behaviours that are highly risky. I am very far from being one of those who say: "I am protected so I can do what I like". In fact I have always felt that the discourse that you DON'T NEED anti-malware defence on the Mac encourages people to think they are protected and can forget about risk.
Let me say that I think one of your explanations could well be correct, and I appreciate that you have been the only person to offer an explanation. I indeed have had previous OS on this MBP, so what was once allowed could have been put a stop to.
Oh, fully agreed there. I haven't, and will never say Macs are invulnerable. Any OS can be compromised. It's just a matter of how. But the Mac is one of the most difficult to attack directly. It's much easier to get the user to do something stupid.
Like this one I've read about multiple times. IT tells users to never open an attachment without first checking its source. Never trust the sender name if you weren't expecting it. Some send out this memo weekly. Sure enough, a Windows virus eventually tears through the company computers. And yes, you guessed it. Someone ran an attachment because it seemed to have come from someone they know. They say this happens over and over, no matter how many times they tell staff not to do that.
That aside, what I do say is AV software on a Mac is useless (it is, to you) but you need to keep your eyes open to avoid falling for scams and other traps. One big item I forgot to add to my list, even though I was thinking about it as I was typing:
Always, always, always have a full, bootable backup before installing any unknown software. A person may have done all the due diligence they could to try and ensure what they're about to install is safe, but it's never going to be 100%. If you do end up with something as ugly as ransomware, no problem. Just turn the Mac off. Turn on the external drive, boot to it and restore it to the main drive. Voila! The malware is gone and you're right back where you were beforehand. I keep two separate, restorable backups on hand for this reason, and others. I've never had a need to fix anything like that, but I also know I can.
preventing OS cancelling update of Avira antivirus App
