Deleting from Photos plus other queries re. referenced files

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Frosticles Author

Level 1

5 points

Deleting from Photos plus other queries re. referenced files

Hi

A couple of questions re. how Photos works on a Mac...sorry in advance for mangling the terminology.

If you use Photos as a managed system and delete an image (then empty the Photos trash) does it permanently delete that image from the library (i.e. doesn't just get hidden by Photos with the image file still residing somewhere and taking up space)?
If so, can a 'permanent deletion' only take place from the 'library' section (i.e. the photos / recents / imports etc)? As far as I can see you can't do a 'permanent deletion' from an album (it just removes the image from the album)?
Is there any way to quickly go through and tag or mark photos, other than as a 'favourite'? I guess this is through keywords with a shortcut key (e.g. x = 'To Delete'; 1 = '1 star'; etc.)?
If you use Photos with referenced files and delete an image, as far as I can see this just removes the image from the Photos library and the original remains where it is - is there any way to delete the original file via Photos (say if you are sorting through a load of photos and want to get rid of several that are no good)? Or would this ultimately be a manual process via Finder?
Importing from a camera or SD card - am I correct that there is no way to import these as referenced files 'via' Photos (so I could create folders on the hard drive in Finder, and copy/paste from the SD card to that folder, and then import to Photos...but I can't create a referenced folder directly via Photos (which I think you could do in Aperture)? So any import that is not from a folder on the hard drive automatically goes into the managed library?
Is there a simple workflow for importing images from a camera (i.e. using Photos as a quick way to view / delete photos), deleting those that are no good, and then saving the remainder as referenced images? Perhaps import to Photos, put in an album, review, tag with keyword, find in 'imported', delete unwanted, then export remainder as unmodified originals, then re-import (if you want referenced)..?
Can you have a managed Photos library entirely on a separate hard drive (so not taking up space on Mac)?
How easy is it to back-up a managed Photos library if it is on a separate hard drive? Can you just copy to another hard drive in its entirety or arrange time-machine to copy from one HD to another?
How stable etc is Photos...? i.e. is a managed library as robust as maintaining separate referenced files (...if the managed library database tanks or Photos just stops working for whatever reason then all your original photos are presumably toast also...whereas with referenced you'd still have access to the originals even if all the edits etc associated with the Photos library would be lost? Or does it not work like this?)

Thanks

MacBook

Posted on Jul 19, 2020 12:12 PM

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Answer 1

Yer_Man

Level 10

165,978 points

Jul 19, 2020 2:33 PM in response to Frosticles

1. It is deleted entirely. But that can take up to 30 days to allow for time to synchronise with online and other linked libraries. When you delete it goes to the 'Recently Deleted' album (not visible until you have deleted at least one shot.) If you select and right click on it there you can delete it immediately.

2. In an Album right click on the image while holding the command key and the option to remove from album becomes 'delete'

3. Easiest Way: Create a keyword - say 'Junk' and assign it a handy shortcut (which you can do with the keyword manager). Use that to quickly tag the images for deletion. Then find them all with a simple smart album (Keyword -> Is -> Junk) gathers them all.

4. Photos will do nothing to images that it doesn't control. So importing and deleting become multi-stage processes when you use a Referenced Library. That's one of many reason you might be unwise to use in that mode.

5. See 4.

6. Such a simple workflow would not use Photos, as that is inherently complex. You can do what you want there with the Finder and Quicklook.

7. Yes.

8. Easy. Same as if it's on the internal drive.

9. Photos is much more stable and safe in /Managed/ mode. If the DB tanks you images are still there, stored within the Library Package. However, they are renamed, so the best defence against a damaged library is a good back up procedure.

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Answer 2

Frosticles Author

Level 1

5 points

Jul 21, 2020 2:03 PM in response to Yer_Man

Ha ha, good stuff!

Re. Quicklook, didn't know about about the spacebar / down arrow tip, so thank you

Re. Sausages...ha ha, yes, you're right! I like the simplicity of Photos as a viewer and organiser, so if I want these benefits then I really need to accept that this is how Photos works and ignore the innards, esp. as that would probably be fine 95% of the time given that I don't take vast nos. of photos and the out-of-camera jpegs are usually fine for me without adjustments...although I wouldn't really use iCloud except for iPhone pics and a few nicer ones from elsewhere (so would probably end up with 2x libraries).

Essentially I am at a point where a shift of system is required (on Catalina, so no more Aperture) and the change penalty is relatively low, so it's a good opportunity to re-appraise / re-organise ... so I'm just trying to work out whether to use Photos to manage everything (ideally, I think - I just like the simplicity, although it seems there would essentially be no (easy) return to a referenced system...) and then use a more powerful app (not sure what) on those relatively rare occasions I do want to fiddle around properly with RAW development/layers etc on a nicer photo ... or whether to just bite the bullet and bung everything in an Aperture-alike app such as Capture 1 or Picktorial that has the management and more powerful developer tools in one (but which would probably be overkill, when most of the time I just want to take some nice pics and periodically look at them).

Ignore the above, just me thinking as I type ... there is probably no good answer and you've already provided more than enough food for thought! Albeit with the image of a sausage factory...!

Thanks for your help, really appreciated.

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Answer 3

Yer_Man

Level 10

165,978 points

Jul 21, 2020 3:10 PM in response to Frosticles

You can process Raws and use Photos in conjunction with any photo editor you prefer for layers work.

For me, CaptureOne is vast overkill if you're not shooting high volumes of Raw.

If you're shooting Jpegs from the camera, and happy with them, and still want cloud, then Adobe's Lightroom is worth looking at. (There are two versions, Lightroom and Lightroom Classic.) I'm referring to the not-classic version, or Cloudy Lightroom as it can be called. All your photos are stored in the cloud, and back up is done by Adobe. You can also have a back up locally as well. The photos are accessible and editable from basically any pice of computer hardware - Macs, Windows, Linux, iOS, Android - and edits and changes are synced across all devices. Plus, with the subscription you also get Photoshop.

As Adobe is the big name in this space, there is a security in that. For me the issue with apps like Picktorial is a wariness about whether they have the ability to survive and prosper.

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Answer 4

Frosticles Author

Level 1

5 points

Jul 21, 2020 4:44 AM in response to Yer_Man

Thanks for this - really helpful.

Re. Q6 - I'm probably not using Finder/Quicklook properly here...when I've done this it seems quite 'steppy' (lots of clicks and having to deal with the file then and there), and you don't seem to be able to get a good look at the images - whereas with Photos it's quite quick to sort through the images and tag as per your answer to Q3, and then deal with the junk files in one go (or perhaps I'm not using Photos properly either in this scenario!).

Re. Q9 - I think I need to do some more reading to understand exactly how Photos works and stores images (really for own curiosity, and so I know what should be where if worst happens)...I've set up a test library had a look in the library package but couldn't find the 'Masters' folder I was expecting, only one called 'originals'....this seemed to have all of the managed (i.e. not referenced) jpegs in but they're not quite organised how I expected...so there are subfolders with 1, 2, 3...etc, A, B, C etc. (OK) but I think I was expecting to see images (or further subfolders) arranged in these by date....whereas the photos seems to put images in these a bit randomly...(e.g. I have 18 images all shot within 1 min of each other but these appear in entirely different sub-folders in 'originals', often with odd images from entirely different dates included in that subfolder also...and images from one day are distributed across several folders seemingly at random)...I suppose I was thinking that if worst came to worst you could just copy the originals from the 'masters' file and they'd already be arranged in folders by date, but this appears not to be the case...

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Answer 5

Yer_Man

Level 10

165,978 points

Jul 21, 2020 9:18 AM in response to Frosticles

Quicklook is just that - a quick look. If you want to check if the shot is in focus, that sort of thing. Navigate to the folderol images on the Card and select the first one. Tap the space bar. See the image large. Tap the down arrow and see the next one and again for the one after etc.

Re: the library package: As I said above, the files are re-named into a random string to facilitate syncing with the Cloud library. This began with the current version of Photos. Prior to this, it was as you described. Bluntly: if you're not happy with this then Photos is not the App for you. (and don't feel bad, it's by no means the app for everybody. In fact, there's a voice in my head that goes 'If they're asking this kind of question, is Photos really for them?) It's a bit like a sausage factory, never look inside just enjoy the sausages :)

So, the solution - if you're going to use Photos - is an up-to-date backup.

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Deleting from Photos plus other queries re. referenced files

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