MBP16 AMD 5600m crashing under load ?

Indeed the same behavior.

For people following this topic, these are my recipes to avoid this issue. If ever I find better solutions, I'll tell you on this thread.

BootCamp

For those you like to game, the first thing to do is disabling TurboBoost.

Go to the configuration panel, then to power settings.

On advanced power settings, go to processor power management, then max processor state, and set it to 99% instead of 100%.

This will disable TurboBoost, which will give you 2 benefits:

• it won't use more than 20W max, so less heat
• it will leave 76W for the rest of the machine, in particular the GPU (you could also reduce the brightness of your internal display when using an external one)

This first trick is actually valid for every MacBook Pro gamer on BootCamp, as it avoids CPU throttling and gives max power to the GPU, which is more important for most of the games.

It won't however be enough to avoid the GPU high temp crash, which will happen if fans won't be spinning soon enough when the game will push the GPU (and sometimes the CPU) hard.

So now it's time to use Macs Fan Control. For gaming, I would simply put everything to max from the beginning.

With these 2 tricks, I did not encounter any crash on BootCamp.

I would not recommend to have fans maxed out for several hours per day, but I doubt anyone would buy a Mac to play games under Windows for several hours per day. On a funny note, with fans at max, the machine will be hot and loud, but less than any gaming laptop with similar performance.

MacOS

Oh man this is really more complex.

Adjusting the fan curve and disabling TurboBoost will avoid the crashes, but there are drawbacks and no "one size fits all" setting.

The tools I'm using now are TG Pro (for the fans) and TurboBoost Switcher.

Although it's a paid software (14 days of trial), I do prefer TG Pro over Macs Fan Control for 3 reasons:

• the AutoMax feature is "on top" of the system fan curve, so it won't replace the system fan curve (safer), but will take control over the system fan curve if the such or such temp is rising above this or this threshold
• you can set the time it takes for the fans to max out, to avoid sudden fans boosts (which are not great for the longevity of the fans)
• finer and deeper controls compared

My settings on TG Pro is to use AutoMax to watch CPU and GPU. I'm still searching for the perfect parameters, but the idea is pushing both fans to 100% in case CPU or GPU is starting to heat up, with a somewhat slow adjustment duration.

As per TurboBoost Switcher, you have to put it in the Application folder to work. You can then use it for free, but with the paid version:

• no more password every now and then
• specific disabling / enabling based on the software you're using (more on that below)

Last but not least, those two software are said to be Apple-notarized, which is always safer, and indeed I did not have any alert from MacOS.

Now depending on the software I need, I won't use the same config.

Everyday loads

TG Pro AutoMax, TurboBoost disabled.

This setting gives me more battery life, uses less power (hello Earth), produces less heat so my MBPro will last longer.

There could be some performance loss, but hey I can't even feel it.

TG Pro AutoMax will push the fans in some occasion, in particular for Photos / iCloud syncs.

Dev, VM, heavy CPU stuff

TG Pro AutoMax, TurboBoost enabled.

The machine will be louder than with the system fan curve, but temps are really better.

For those stating TurboBoost is a marketing stuff, during complex workloads I would lose 30 to 50% of performance / time is not using TurboBoost. I've measured this.

3D only

TG Pro AutoMax, TurboBoost disabled.

Same as gaming under BootCamp.

3D Pro Apps

TG Pro AutoMax, TurboBoost enabled.

In the case of Unity, you can bounce from heavy CPU demand to heavy GPU demand.

Music / Photo / Video Pro Apps

System fan curve, TurboBoost enabled.

For Music Apps, you need the CPU, and you need silence.

For Photo Apps, you need the CPU, but if you adjust the fan curve the fans won't stop kicking in / stopping.

For Video Apps, you need CPU and GPU, and if you adjust the fan curve the fans won't stop kicking in / stopping.

Guess what, Apple nailed it, the system fan curve has been planned for these usages, and no system crash.

So Apple did optimize the machine for most popular usages of its pro customers.

And there are tools for other usages.

If you wonder whether heat could damage the machine or affect its longevity, then AppleCare+ is a must.

Hope this helps.

As promised, some (interesting) feedback after my visit to the Genius Bar.

First off a big thank to the Genius. He was patient, understanding, and quite skilled on this specific topic.

From what he told me, our case is a premiere, at least in the knowledge base they have.

And guess what, I was unable to reproduce the phenomenon there.

I reproduced the same routine that is making my MBPro crash at home, I went up to 99.2°C ... but not more.

We ran several tests, including stressing the MBPro with dedicated tools, but the fans were good at cooling the machine down.

Hardware diagnostic has been run, but the Genius had access to the detailed results, and clearly no thermal pasting or thermal sensor issue (these detailed results are really helpful, I wish I'd have access to them at home).

So after a good time of testing, and extensive discussion with the Genius, this is what we concluded, which I will represent in the simplest possible way (The Tortoise and The Hare):

• let's say the CPU temp is a first runner (The Tortoise), and the fan system a second runner (The Hare)
• if the Tortoise (CPU temp) is crossing the finish line before being caught by the Hare (fan system), then the MBPro will crash, end of the Fable
• the Hare is going really fast, so fans can take off slowly to catch an already running CPU temp Tortoise
• if the Tortoise will start really fast, even a surprised Hare in perfect shape and with perfect running shoes will still catch it
• in these extreme conditions, one very thin hair will have the Hare lose the race

... ok, I'll stop there, we're not here for poetry ...

So why does this happen at home and not at the Genius Bar where the MBPro is running "as designed" and not crashing whatever the load? What could have been this "very thin hair".

I observed two things:

1. the surface material of the Genius Bar deck is really good at absorbing heat and keeping cool, more than my desk
2. there was zero object near the MBPro on the deck, and especially no mouse mat at the right side of the MBPro, whereas I have a very thin Logitech mat at the right of the MBPro, which is not blocking the lateral air vent, but could lower its efficiency

Yeah, very very thin hairs, but when your CPU is going 99°C and the fans are trying to catch up, such very very thin hairs can save the day.

Last but not least, and this is now something I also ran repeatedly: once the fans are launched, I found no way to make the MBPro crash, whatever the load. Just like a runner (again), warm-up is making a huge difference (even though by limiting the max Turbo Boost frequency).

This leaves me with many things to try (MacFans, no GPU switching, preliminary boost before heavy loads).

But the first ones are going to be: no mouse mat, better deck surface (I needed to change my desk anyway).

Will keep you informed if troubles continue.

Had the exact same problem (same screen also) and turns out the fans are not speeding up as fast as the CPU and GPU heat up so that ends up with the crash.

I used a tool from crysalisidea.com (max fan control) to manually control the fans, this is available for both Mac OS and windows. I just put the fans to the max and it didn’t happen again.

Sad that is not working correctly automatically.

Hi,

Try to run Apple Diagnostics if it reports something which is related GPU or sensors.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202731

I had this same issue. Long story short, it was a hardware issue with the GPU. I had to send it back to Apple for repair.

Keeping you updated.

I'm now able to reproduce the problem, and think I found its root cause ... but I still have no solution.

Root cause seems to be CPU going 100°C.

I first thought the CPU was not pushed hard, but Intel Power Gadget proved me wrong.

And this is actually the problem: in some specific cases, the fans won't kick in quickly enough. So the CPU will become toasty without the user noticing it.

Specific cases are not easy to spot.

I had first encountered the problem with Unity, but not during its peak rendering or compiling.

I couldn't then reproduce it even when launching benchmarks in parallel (such as Heaven from Unigine + GeekBench or Cinebench running at the same time).

When working on a Window Virtual Machine (Parallels Desktop 16), with nested virtualization, and launching something CPU and GPU heavy, then boom I've been able to reproduce it, repeatedly. And clearly, the CPU goes quick to 95 then 100°C and the fans are only lazily starting.

Could be be the fan curve not adapted to some usage of the CPU, or CPU+GPU. Maybe this curve has been planned for CPU access supervised by MacOS and GPU access under Metal, and not CPU access from a third party hypervisor and GPU access under OpenGL. Bad news is that the problem is exactly the same under Big Sur Beta 11.

Could also be some bad thermal pasting or some bad temp sensor.

I'll go to the Genius Bar these coming days and report here.

This behavior is not normal, even for this heat-problem-prone computer.

They may be willing to send yours to a depot for repair. Try to include a description of how to reproduce the issue. Since the 5600 is still fairly new, they may replace the mainboard, even if they do not find an issue.

Be certain you retain at least one Trusted backup, because the boot drive will not be returned to you if they replace the mainboard.

@Grant Bennet-Alder

As aforementioned, I already went to the Genius Bar and the machine was diagnosed as "working as designed", no problem on the motherboard, sensor, thermal paste, CPU, GPU. The genius clearly stated they would quite surely not replace anything, because of this diagnostic.

It is clearly a fan curve issue since Macs Fan Control helps to avoid it.

It's the same kind of fan curve / overheating problem people had with MBPro15 (freezes in the middle of intense loads), except for the 15 the machine was freezing without the space invaders pattern onscreen.

Now if someone here has the issue, gets the machine/motherboard replaced, and the problem fixed after replacement, I will surely follow the footsteps.

Sure disabling Turbo Boost will help reducing heat.

But for many pro users, Turbo Boost is no marketing.

I did not take the i9 + 5600m combo just for having some serious power, but because my workload needs it.

I did not test Turbo Boost Switcher, as I don't like playing with kext, but I've tested disabling Turbo Boost under Bootcamp (it's just one mouse click away in the power settings). And when building big projects, the difference in time spent was pretty huge (from +20% to +45%).

So I'd rather keep Turbo Boost (for now) if other solutions can work.

If not, well, I'm afraid the MBPro will go away. No need for such an expensive machine if I have to cut its power down. But after the impressive results of warming-up, I think this won't happen.

Just upgraded to 10.15.7 (which went out some hours ago).

Problem still there, just like it was on the latest Big Sur beta.

Now I'm really starting to hope the problem is my machine (fixable), and not the fan curve (which would need a specific work on the Apple dev side - if you read me guys, I'm ready to beta-test -).

As of now I'm pretty sad.

I put a lot of money into this machine as a pro dev. It should help me earn my life, not spending my time in rebooting, chasing hardware problem causes, adjusting VM cores to avoid "green and pink" screens, trying to figure out how to slow Unity down (this sounds crazy), going to the Genius bar, waiting for the repair (with my old MacBook Air, so no serious dev for a week) ...

Software development is one of the few cases that are mostly single-threaded, where you are using mostly one CPU and its clock speed matters. But you could re-enable Turbo Boost to do builds.

Many cases where you are doing heavy graphics work are Not single Threaded, so they could benefit by avoiding a senseless buildup of heat.

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You do not own a computer that does not meet your needs. If this computer does not meet your needs for ANY reason, you should take advantage of your ability to return it inside 14 days.

Sorry, but once again your answer is a little bit restrictive.

Without entering into any sterile debate, software development may be a mix of single and multi-threaded operations in a row, so disabling Turbo Boost won't fly.

About the return policy, problem is there are cases you do not encounter in the first 14 days, or you'll have to spend your time testing and not working. And by the way, the tests will be valid until something changes, e.g. Parallels or Unity put a new version which will reveal a problem only weeks after.

Don't get me wrong, I think Apple did a fantastic job with the MBPro16, and your feedback as the ability to disable Turbo Boost is greatly helpful.

I'm just sharing my experience and some remedies, which won't need anything like kext, which at a certain point in time won't be accepted by MacOS for stability / safety / Apple Silicon compatibility reasons.

I could wish Apple would have a "trigger" for some "max perf max noise lowest temp" in the energy saving parameters, but this could actually do more harm for the casual user. Since we are all using the same OS, pro and non-pro users have to accept some constraints of the other group ...

Cheers!

I am getting the exact same issue!! and Apple Diagnostics says everything is fine. Any updates??