Email photo as attachment, not embedded, in iOS 14

axelnelson wrote:

I'd think that any non-trivial inconvenience caused to a non-trivial number of users with regard to how any software fails to communicate with other, inferior clients over which it has no control, should be a concern to the developers of the software in question (Apple). …

I’m sure it is «a concern to the developers of the software in question (Apple).»

However, as has been demonstrated, and changes on Apple’s side can be no more than a fragile “workaround”: subject to any tiny change anywhere within the web of interactions involved in transferring emails.

… Any superior user interface should be responsive to how it works with other popular systems and with folks of varying levels of tech fluency. …

That’s OK, and all, provided the inferior (regardless how popular) system adheres to the International Internet Standards involved.

Anything outside such standards has no guarantees in the result.

‘In this case, we are talking about completely opaque design choices, in said inferior system that go outside the behaviors stipulated but the standards.

As a result, the “parameter space” for successfully “coaxing” Outlook into providing its users the proper behavior is only known to its developer, and would require extensive research (trial-n-error) for anyone else to determine.

… Blaming grandma for owning a PC that won't allow her to save images sent to her from her Mac-owning progeny doesn't really fix the problem, and only points to a poor understanding of the human element in the messy tech ecosystem.

There is only such “«blame»” if such a person refuses to use any of the myriad of email clients that don’t have the particular failings.

Why use an inferior system, if there are superior choices readily available, for no cost?

In fact, it would seem incumbent upon any «Mac-owning progeny» to help «grandma» to have the necessary tools for her use.

Sorry if it's not working for you. It seems to for others. Just tried it again and it works fine for me to my MS Outlook account using either my g-mail account or my MS Exchange acct as the sending account.

I attach both the short video and any photos I want to send using the photos app, selecting "mail" and selecting my MS Exchange address.

terrapinny wrote:

This is so frustrating! I send images to my work email, then have to go into the email, save each image in paint... ridiculous.

And forget about composing an email for a work colleague with pictures.

thanks apple, I now do double and triple the work.

You are only having to «do double and triple the work» due to the particular email client you are using at the receiving end: no other email clients prevent their users from performing bulk attachment operations (such as bulk-saves) based only upon some vague internal choices of the email client.

Unfortunately, somehow, that email client has got many users “convinced” that the failing is not that email client, but the sender of the email. 🤦🏻‍♂️

Worse still, this problem will never be actually fixed until the creator of that particular email client (and its derivatives) fixes this misbehavior.

However. That will never happen, so long as such users continue to misplace the “blame”.

Welcome, terrapinny, to Apple Support Communities!

As I wrote to Lotus9999:

«Here’s the test you should perform:

Simply try any set of email clients on your received emails (that appear to have «pictures» «embedded within the body of the email»), and see which ones [email clients] allow you to vs. prevent you from, performing bulk attachment operations (such as bulk-saves) upon said emails.

In other words, a functionality test vs. an appearance only test.

Now. What do you find?»

The trouble you are having, Lotus9999, is twofold:

1. There are only ever attached files, including photos/images/pictures/etc. So, there simply is no such thing as «embedded» such.
2. Hence, the only concept of «embedded» files/photos/images/pictures/etc. is purely in describing the appearance of the way a given email client formats/renders such.

Yes. Such are formatted/rendered inline with formatted text, and such, in a manner much like webpages.

This is pure appearance, and has nothing, whatsoever, to do with the reality of the situation, which is that all such are simply attached.

Use any email client other than Outlook, or its derivatives, and you, and everyone, will find that you can perform bulk attachment operations, such as bulk-saves, on the “embedded” appearing attachments.

So. Why do people put up with the misbehavior of this very tiny subset of email clients (Outlook and its derivatives)?

(I don’t recall Outlook behaving so badly back when I used to use it as a part of my work, before I retired. I even used Outlook in learning about the International Internet Standards that govern email composition and interchange.)

In fact, even Outlook betrays its own hypocrisy when you save such an email—that Outlook refuses to allow you to, otherwise, save all attachments (which, for some reason, causes people to be fooled into thinking that there are no attachments)—as HTML; only to find that it, thus, saves all the attachments as files, as you wanted in the first place.

(Back when I used Outlook in learning about the International Internet Standards that govern email composition and interchange, Outlook had the ability to show the raw text form of the entire received email—since all emails are formatted as pure text for transmission: this form, likewise, exposes Outlook’s hypocrisy; since, in this form, all the attachments are laid out for your view, so long as you are not “put off” by the text “gibberish” that binary files are sent as.)

Incidentally, Lotus9999, my response to N-K-O’s investigation (https://discussions.apple.com/thread/251807601?answerId=254616832022#254616832022) shows the odd reason why adding an attached file that has a different file type seems to help Outlook (and its derivatives) “do the right thing”™️: it simply “plays” into Outlook’s way of taking “shortcuts” with the International Internet Standards governing email composition.

Even just there, it is Outlook that is not treating the standard properly.

Every seems to be saying “Outlook won’t allow....” etc. But it always did until IOS 14. It’s Apple who changed something. In the meantime, I will use the short video work around, but sadly, I don’t think we will expect a change from Apple from what people are saying.

If all you want, Chris-FW, is «to find simple solutions and workarounds», then there are at least three (3).

However, without fixing the root cause, of the very tiny subset of email clients (consisting of email clients all programmed by one company: not Apple) that prevent their users from performing bulk attachment operations (such as bulk-saves); all one can ever have are fragile workarounds, subject to being easily broken by any tiny changes in the web of interactions involved in transferring emails.

It is this fragility that lead to the latest issues, with the introduction of iOS 14.

It is this same fragility that lead to all the cases where such issues ”surfaced”, over the years, with prior versions of iOS.

I don’t expect Apple will willingly continue to play that loosing game. (As a programmer, myself, I know I wouldn’t.)

Actually, CJCragg, a better workaround in Outlook is to save the received email as HTML (that’s actually the format used for emails that have text formatting and format images inline with text and other elements, just like webpages): you will find all the attachments saved within the created folder/directory.

All Outlook is doing is saving the actual contents/attachments of the email in a form understood by your computer.

Then you can move the images anywhere you wish.

True. It’s not as good and convenient as when Outlook provides you with the proper bulk attachment operations (such as a bulk-save), but, until that flaw, in Outlook is corrected, it’s one of the available workarounds.

Hey, jemtz, one can and should, always, provide Apple Feedback, by way of their provided Feedback mechanisms.

However, the effectiveness of such Feedback will depend, entirely, upon its relevance to the realities involved. (Otherwise, the Feedback will have little actual affect.)

While «the Apple support staff» have far less knowledge of what is actually going on, with regard to emails, than the actual programmers; the programmers will know a reasonable modification request vs. something that is meaningless to the actual code and International Internet Standards that govern email creation and interchange.

Additionally, I wouldn’t expect Apple to willingly subject themselves to the vagaries of some poorly programmed third-party software.

I have huge sympathy for this situation. Office 365 and hence Outlook 365 is the standard for most businesses and individuals, as were the earlier MS versions.

As a City Councillor, we use the Web based Office Outlook 365 and the option of saving an email in HTML form and then messing about trying to save a load of images does not appear to be available. So, whereas all other files come through as clear attachments, photos do not. It is a complete and utter pain.

I believe the workarounds work though.

Scamp468 wrote:

I have huge sympathy for this situation. Office 365 and hence Outlook 365 is the standard for most businesses and individuals, as were the earlier MS versions.

As a City Councillor, we use the Web based Office Outlook 365 and the option of saving an email in HTML form and then messing about trying to save a load of images does not appear to be available. So, whereas all other files come through as clear attachments, photos do not. It is a complete and utter pain. …

Yes. Outlook’s penchant for disallowing bulk attachment operations (such as bulk-saves) in certain cases—known only fully to the programmers—even though the photos (and such) are truly «attachments», «is a complete and utter pain».

Back when I was working in the corporate and governmental sectors, if I found any software to have such failings, I always made my displeasure known to the responsible companies!

Of course, I always did my due diligence, to make sure where the failing lay, before hand.

After all, the “simple” and “obvious” “answers” are not always connected to reality.

As I wrote to Martin_Williams:

«I did have one [company], where their software had a limitation on Windows, but had no such limitation on their mainframe or UNIX versions.

They told me that the problem was a limitation in Windows.

I found that to be likely, but still performed deeper investigations.

Ultimately, I found that their claimed Windows limitation only occurred if one uses the Stack in transferring data, rather than the Heap [«the technical details»], which is more appropriate for large amounts of data.

So. I contacted the company and shared my findings with them.

They, subsequently, contacted me, back, and informed me that a corrected version of their software for Windows would be available the following month.

This is the power of understanding «the technical details».»

… I believe the workarounds work though.

Yes. However, as workarounds, they are fragile, as I have explained earlier.

(In fact, it is this fragility that lead to the current instance of this issue with iOS 14. Similar to previous instances with earlier iOS versions, over the years.)

Lotus9999:

The longstanding answer is:

«The answer, as I, and others, have posted for months, here and within previous Discussions on this issue, are twofold:

1. Apple Mail is, and always has been, «send[ing] emails … where the photos are … attachments, like how it [has always] be[en] for years», even at those times, through the years, when this Outlook issue surfaced with previous iOS versions.
2. As far as getting your Outlook (and Outlook derived) email clients to allow you, the user, to perform bulk attachment operations (such as bulk-saves), that is not something Apple can actually fix. Y’all must contact the responsible company, in order to have that fixed.
3. Anything else is but a fragile workaround, subject to being easily broken by any tiny changes in the web of interactions involved in transferring emails. (This is how this issue came up with the change to iOS 14, as well as many other times, in the past years, with earlier iOS versions.)»

Is that still too technical?

Unfortunately, as far as «inconsequential» or other judgements, as they say: “You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink.”

I guess this will be your surprise. I send from my iPhone using Apple mail. I receive my emails and those from other iPhone senders (unaware of the sending program) on Outlook 2010 on a Windows 10 PC. Until IOS 14, all was good. Now they are all embedded.

TarHeelTech wrote:

Please, enlighten us with documentation on "International Internet Standards". WHO governs this? Provide an article. Provide a link to Wikipedia. Something. Anything. Otherwise, we will all believe that you made it up. …

As I have already answered you, on this: It is through the IETF. More specifically, see the Official Internet Protocol Standards.

I’m sure there are other International Internet Standards groups, but that link provides the best access I know of to the International Internet Standards governing email creation and interchange.

Incidentally, those standards are developed with the intent to be far more generally applicable, as opposed to be strictly dealing with emails.

… Sir, I have used a lot of email clients since I first checked email via a Unix command line (I believe it was called Vax) back in 1994. …

I’ve been a heavy email user since ‘81. Also command line, back then (but not UNIX, but DEC VMS). (VAXen were also DEC machines, but later.)

… You love to call out Outlook and only Outlook. …

I only «call out» what needs to be «call[ed] out».

More often than not, I haven’t even used a company or product name: simply the very tiny subset of email clients with this particular issue.

Why don't you call out Pine, Eudora, Elm, Thunderbird, GroupWise, or Apple Mail. Are attachments (or the superficialities) present or is that just a mirage? …

Are you having difficulty knowing what an attachment is, in email?

I could recommend reading the standards, found in the link I provided, but that could be some “heavy” reading. A very large number of the standards, within that link, have to do with attachments. A good keyword to look up is MIME (an acronym, of course).

Almost none of those standards pertain to «superficialities».

In fact, even where the standards refer to how a given client may render (display) something, such is usually worded in a form like a “recommendation”, at most, but more often like a “suggestion”.

Attachments are determined by the standards, how they may be rendered (displayed), or manipulated, are not, typically, “spelled out” by the standards.

Such would, likely, be given more as “best practices”, or some such.

… Do you agree or disagree that when someone uploaded a picture using the native email app built into iOS 13 on Sept 15, 2020 that it arrived in all email clients as an attachment …

With that part of your statement, I most certainly agree.

…, but when that same person upgraded to iOS 14 on Sept 16, 2020 now the uploaded picture was embedded in the email? …

The last part of your statement is false, from the standpoint of the International Internet Standards that I have linked to.

Both cases are simply different renderings (display) of the attachments, as defined by the International Internet Standards that I have linked to.

… Do you agree or disagree with that statement?

Now. If you were to reword your question in terms of what the appearances (superficialities) were, then I could agree on those appearances (superficialities).

(I feel like I’m being interrogated, or, at least, deposed by a lawyer. 🧐)