Mid 2014 MacBook Pro 13" Big Sur Issues

I did some research before I even brought it in and 2013-2014 MBP 13" are having blacked out screens and the 2016-2017 MPB 13" is having battery problems in which Apple is replacing them free of charge. To me my issue seems to be these two things Apple has already addressed.

I'm not sure which of the MBPro 2016-2017 free repair programs you are referencing here. The only MBPro 2016-2017 free repair program that would even come close to being relevant to your 2014 MBPro is the new repair program to address 2016-2017 MBPros not charging past 1%. However, you are not having this exact charging issue and the batteries on the 2016-2017 laptops are different than the battery in your laptop.

At best the only way this MBPro 2016-2017 free battery repair program could possibly be related to the issue you are experiencing with your laptop is if the Big Sur update/upgrade updated the battery firmware on your laptop as well. This is a big "IF" since the batteries used in the 2014 laptop are different. I do believe that a macOS 10.154 update (also a similar update with Big Sur at the time) likely updated the battery firmware for the 2016-2017 models and introduced the 1% charging issue as I saw a reference in some Apple documentation or some Apple notification I saw (I don't recall where now) which said the macOS 10.15.7 Supplemental Update 2 was only necessary for macOS 10.15.4+. This implies that a battery firmware update was likely included with the macOS 10.15.4 update to cause the 1% battery charging issue. I despise companies that won't be forthcoming about details like this. Mistakes happen and I would much rather have companies be honest about it rather than hide it from view as it builds distrust as you wonder what else they are hiding (Apple hides everything even when it is common public knowledge).

Otherwise you are comparing Apples & Oranges here no matter which 2016+ repair program you are referencing since the hardware is different to the 2014 hardware.

However Apple is trying to say my MBP is "Vintage" and there is nothing they could do because it is hard to find part. This I don't buy considering the "genius" tried getting me to pay $300+ for a battery replacement and $300+ for the logic board. He gave me both prices because THEY DID NOT HAVE A CLUE WHAT IS WRONG WITH IT. But wait!? I thought it's vintage and you didn't have spare parts!?

The laptop is "Vintage" so the Apple Store really may not know for sure whether the necessary parts are still available. I actually thought the 2014 laptop was actually "Obsolete" already, but perhaps I misread the notice I received from Apple regarding one of our 2014 laptops.

I can understand that the Apple Store may not know which part is bad yet until they are able to swap parts to determine which one is at fault (perhaps it could be both parts) and is normal at this stage of the diagnostic repair process if there is no absolute sign pointing to the specific part (Battery and Logic Board are the most likely culprits). It is sometimes very hard to provide a reasonably accurate repair estimate unless a tech is able to swap in known good parts to confirm which ones are really bad. Until then a tech has to make a best guess based on previous experience.

As for the price quotes I really cannot say since there are too many variables involved including how the laptop will be repaired (repaired in the store or sent to a mail-in repair depot) and your region may affect pricing options.

This is the worse experience I have ever had with Apple. In my opinion if Apple is confident enough to release an operating system which SUPPORTS my system, then the should SUPPORT the problems that it causes if they are publicly addressing there is a problem. Like a car recall. It doesn't matter the age. I do not care if it is so called "Vintage" it was working 100% PERFECT before the Big Sur Update !!!!!

Keep in mind that Apple products are much different than cars. With cars at least there are third party aftermarket parts available, which is not the case with Apple products generally. Once Apple goes through their stock of parts that is it, there are no more parts available to fix the Apple hardware (this goes for just about every computer manufacturer and most electronics out there today unfortunately which is why the Right to Repair movement is so important because it allows techs to actually fix the broken part itself instead of just replacing large complex modules such as Logic Boards).

I agree that a company should address issues caused by updating/upgrading the OS, but unfortunately many tech companies won't help users if a software update or firmware update goes wrong making the device useless. I've seen this many times over the years even when the device is still supported by the manufacturer and even if the manufacturer knows the update broke the device (this isn't just Apple). The problem is even worse if the hardware is no longer supported or is in an interim support state where only certain parts are available ("Vintage" for Apple). If the necessary part is no longer available, then the manufacturer is unable to repair the device even if the person is willing to pay for the repair.

Proving that the update/upgrade actually caused the problem is extremely difficult even when hundreds or thousands of users/systems are affected. The only way the OS update/upgrade could have caused a problem that also affects a clean install of an older OS is if a firmware update (system, battery, or other piece of hardware) caused the problem. A clean install is completely erasing the whole physical drive before installing the OS and testing the OS before migrating or restoring from a backup and before installing any third party apps. If the issue happens immediately after the OS update/upgrade, then a cause & effect are much more likely than if the issue is only noticed days or weeks later. Unfortunately most manufacturers do not allow downgrading firmware (Dell is one exception that I know about).

Unfortunately due to Apple's extremely secretive nature no one really knows what is contained in any macOS update/upgrade or in the Apple firmware updates (we only know the most basic items which Apple decides to tell us).

It does make me wonder in your case whether the system firmware caused your problems (meaning a new Logic Board is needed unless Apple decides to update the firmware to fix the issue) or whether the 2014 laptop also received a battery firmware update as well (if so, then a new battery is needed or another battery firmware update is needed). Unfortunately Apple would first have to determine a bad firmware update caused the problem and this is unlikely to happen unless lots of users reported the same issue. If other users have upgraded to the latest version of Big Sur on a MBPro 2014 and don't have these issues, then it is likely the firmware update revealed an existing latent hardware issue on your laptop (if any firmware updates were even included for your specific laptop and/or battery).

You can try contacting Apple corporate to discuss the issue and you can leave product feedback here:

https://www.apple.com/feedback/

You can also see if there are any local consumer protection laws in your region that can help you out here.

I wish you luck in getting this laptop running again.

FYI, in the future please divide your post into paragraphs for easier reading. It is so hard to read the post and I ended up having to skim it as I was getting frustrated trying to follow it.

I just want to address a couple of points in your post that did stand out to me.

jjllmm1610 wrote:

My laptop has been so great to me with no problems EVER. I updated to Big Sur 11.2.3 and my MBP all of a sudden shut off.

Just curious how soon after the update/upgrade did you first notice the issues?

I let it sit for a period of time and was able to get it to turn on, on occasions. But when it did it would shut back off randomly and the cycle continues. The battery would also not be detected at times.I was able to get it to turn on just long enough to reinstall Mojave and Catalina. Whenever I did that it would act fine for a while but as usage went on the problems began to reoccur once again.

Did you disconnect all external devices?

Unfortunately without seeing the laptop first hand it is hard to say for sure, but based on your descriptions here it would appear either the Logic Board or Battery are the most likely causes of the problem if the battery is not being recognized. A battery that is just beginning to fail can sometimes just miraculously start to work again, then fail just as quickly. This can also explain why the Apple Store is having difficulty providing an exact diagnosis. I run into this problem all the time and it is hard to know for sure whether the battery is actually the problem or possibly a recent system or battery firmware update.

My laptop froze up the apple store's diagnostic software when they plugged it in.

The fact that the service diagnostic froze does tend to indicate a hardware issue since the laptop is booting a very specialized & minimal OS for the diagnostics.

I contacted Apple numerous more times pleading with Bothe store and support to revise the techs statement because to me, the battery suddenly not being detected, along with the MBP starting to act funny as time went on while using were the two things to me that I felt would point in the direction of what was wrong.

That was a good idea since that information should definitely have been included. Also if the issue occurred immediately after installing/updating Big Sur (within hours or the first day), then that is also relevant.

Apple assured me it was fixed and nothing is wrong I with it so not to worry. ..... The person brings my MBP out ANDDDDDDD...... it did not turn on. At this point the "genius's" ..... proceeded to tell me there is nothing else they could do.

It is not unusual to have a computer especially these Apple Retina model laptops to be quirky. These are really strange systems with some very odd behaviors that many times make absolutely no sense and traditional troubleshooting techniques are not always enough to figure out the issue. Trust me as I am driven crazy every day trying to troubleshoot issues with our organization's Macs. This even happens to me way too often these days on these Apple Retina laptops. Older Apple non-Retina laptops were so much easier to troubleshoot and repair for many reasons. Most real hardware repair shops know these recent Apple laptops are pure junk.

Plus see my note above regarding a battery that may just be starting to fail.

jjllmm1610 wrote:

I was using the laptop for quite a while up to the second I updated without single problem. I made sure the MBP was completely charged when I began and as soon as it finished it would not turn on. That was the first sign something was amiss. This was when I had to start waiting random amount of times in between being able to turn it on.

That does seem like a firmware update has triggered a problem. If this is not a common problem for the 2014 MBPros, then likely the update is revealing an existing hardware issue that wasn't yet noticeable.

I wouldn't call myself anywhere near perfect when it comes to all aspects of electronics, but it do consider myself more inclined that some of not most. This is why it was so hard for me to sit back and try to let the tech team do what they do without overstepping. But I all but knew when I received the Email that was very general, even thought I went into great detail while I was with my genius. I had explained everything in great detail and it was really frustrating to me that when I got there after pleading with anyone I could talk to the please pass my notes on, I got there for it to be useless.

I can certainly understand as I am like that too. Unfortunately people do tend omit details when writing a customer report even though I think Apple expects them to make accurate notes. As for the diagnosis Apple tends to provide just the most minimal information on details. An AASP is more likely to be willing to provide more exact details for you. Apple is all about minimalism and secrets and that extends through out Apple.

After doing the reinstall of earlier OS versions, It struck me that this was a hardware issue, however I believe this issue as you pointed out could definitely (I'm certain) came in some for from the Big Sur operating system.

I am praying it is just the beginning of a bad battery as you pointed out quite a few times. Signs that point myself in the direction is the randomness of it. For instance the morning of my appointment after 24 hours of it not making even a sound, I get in the car to head that way and it stayed on till I got their for them to do the diagnostics and started once again right in time for them to see.

Keep in mind the problem may only occur at certain charge levels. I have found some Apple laptop batteries will test & work perfectly fine even passing the Apple Diagnostics, but when the battery reaches certain charge levels the diagnostics will detect an issue. This makes troubleshooting batteries difficult.

I Just want to know what was wrong with mine. And with Apple not being able to tell me, I decided to venture into light trouble shooting myself and I have something that might help you narrow down on what you think might be the issue: when I take the bottom panel off and gently pry up the battery with the power cable unplugged, I can then hold the power button for 10 seconds plug the power cable in while holding the button for 10 more seconds. When I let go she turns on and can run off the cord and will run till I turn it off.

Without being able to test with a known good battery it is impossible to say if it is a bad battery or Logic Board. Unfortunately Apple makes this extremely difficult without a removable battery. In some regions it is possible to mail the laptop to Apple for repair. You can click the "Get Support" link at the top right of this page to see the options in your region.

if more people complained that maybe (a BIG maybe) apple will address. it. Type in "2013-2014 MBP 13" Big Sur problems" and you'd be amazed what you find.

Most of those issues are likely due to the initial release of Big Sur which did brick the 2013-2014 MBPros with a system firmware update. Apple did eventually block the Big Sur installer from those systems which then generated even more threads about why Big Sur was not available. Again secrecy causes confusion.

jjllmm1610 wrote:

Funny enough when I received it back and finally got it on this evening when troubleshooting immediately laughed a little inside to find out they installed Catalina instead of the newest operating system

Because when I brought it in, the MBP was on Catalina.

Chances are the tech just used Recovery Mode (Command + R) to reinstall macOS which boots to the installer for the OS currently installed.

Many times Apple will just install the version of macOS which originally shipped on the Mac from the factory (more common when a Logic Board is replaced).

When I reinstall macOS it usually depends on what macOS USB installer I have handy or which one I feel like choosing. It also depends on whose computer I'm working on as well and their level of expertise.

That can work if you are extremely careful with the battery as it won't be easy to fit.

The quality of third party Lithium-ion batteries is extremely poor even when purchased from a respected vendor such as OWC. You just hope the battery you get is good out of the box since you will have no way to confirm the replacement battery's health & functionality without another MBPro to test the battery if you still have issues with the replacement battery.

FYI, I was just watching a video today from a guy who repairs Apple Logic Boards where he was talking about how both Catalina & Big Sur updates were bricking some MacBook Pros by corrupting the T2 chip firmware on 2018+ models and the SPI ROM firmware on older pre-2016 models. This is the first time I've actually heard any details on the issue from someone who is able to prove the issue by reprogramming the SPI ROM. In my opinion every device that requires a firmware update should always have a second firmware bank or a read-only ROM so that the system can default to the backup or original firmware so the main firmware can be re-programmed. There is absolutely no reason this cannot be implemented.

Good luck.

Yes it was him. Just search for "Catalina update bricks macbook pro". You can understand why I won't link directly to it. I believe he referenced the 2013-2014 MBPros and it was a short video. He was mostly discussing the fact that a Catalina OS (also a Big Sur) update can brick a computer and how that is incredibly stupid of Apple and extremely disrespectful to Apple customers/users.

I'm not so sure the update actually causes direct corruption. I think because these chips' firmware is updated and the process goes wrong which ends up corrupting the firmware on those chips. I don't think the actual contents of the firmware update are the problem. It is the fact that Apple performs a risky update without informing the user for one thing and not providing an easy method for the user to recover from an error. At least with the T2 Macs you can recover from it if you have access to another Mac so you can "Restore" the T2 firmware, but this also ends up erasing the whole SSD requiring an OS reinstall over the Internet before you can restore from a backup. This is not good if a person doesn't have access to another Mac capable of doing this plus it ends up being a very slow process having to download the entire OS from the Internet which can be a problem for many users with slow or with data caps.

I'm not sure if it was this video or another similar one, but he had a brilliant but painfully funny comment about how a user needed to have their data recovered on a T2 Mac, however, the OS update corrupted the T2 firmware. The data was still intact on the SSD, but the data was inaccessible because the T2 chip is needed to decrypt the SSD. To fix the T2 chip requires "Restoring" the T2 firmware which in the process destroys all data on the SSD. Yes a user should have a backup, but it is still a completely stupid method of implementing security as I have discovered other aspects of the T2 security mode that is actually broken and causes a lot of unnecessary work to recover from. While the T1 Macs were bad enough I would steer clear of the T2 systems as they are a hot mess.

jjllmm1610 wrote:

So when I first updated I told you it turned off right after. I also told you at one point after installing older versions of Mac OS X I reinstalled Big Sur and got stuck in a boot loop that took forever to figure out how to get out of. Is it possible that loop is due to the curruption of what you said was happening to pre -2016 models?

No I don't think so since the issue would exist at all times.

Also ironically enough I actually messaged him though his webpage ..... I was surprised they mention that because this dude is legit crazy good at figuring out what is wrong with apple computer logic board through the help of shematics. However I do understand where everyone's answer regarding repair is coming from.

That is what I like about him. He is straight forward and tells things like they are and he really doesn't want to see consumers paying more than necessary. He is basically telling you his estimated repair costs will be similar to Apple's price. I like vendors who are upfront and honest. Knowing all the facts & details allows a person to make much better decisions and to learn more about things.

Maybe it is me being hopeful, but as I told you earlier with the troubleshooting I was able to perform. Being able to use the MBP off of the power cord with the battery unplugged points me in the direction that you are actually correct that is the beginning of battery failure. However my fear is that as I said it came from the operating system update and that if I were to replace it sooner or later with a genuine battery, that it would happen again possibly.

I doubt it would happen again unless there was something else wrong with your laptop where it corrupted the battery firmware as it was being applied to the battery. Or this time it could have been the battery had an issue which was exposed by the new firmware. Unfortunately this is something we will probably never know or understand (sometimes it isn't worth the time and effort unless it becomes a more common problem).

If you replace the battery, then just update macOS normally. You need to keep macOS updated.