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Backup data stored beside a local TimeMachine backup

Hi there!


Is it possible in any way, to store data beside a local TimeMachine backup (backup.backupdb) which is also backuped by TimeMachine. Currently the whole drive (an external HDD) is automatically excluded from the backup.


The reason I want to do this:

I have lots (LOTS!!) of data and a huge TM-backup. All this data is currently stored on several external HDDs but for most of it there is no backup. Now i got 2*12TB HDDs in RAID 1. The RAID is connected by USB 3.1 for speed an low latency (tested a NAS, was way too slow and not responsive). Financially and because of the available network infrastructure there is no other way than a USB-RAID-device.

I could devide the HDD in 2 or more partitions but i would have to fix a size and would not be flexible anymore. I know, with Big Sur I could backup to APFS but updating from 10.15 to 11 is no option because of software compatibility.

So with only 1 partition for data and backup I would limit the size of the backup with sudo defaults write /Library/Preferences/com.apple.TimeMachine MaxSize XYZ1234 for TM not using my entire drive. But i have to have kind of a file history for some data/projects on the same disk. And this data/projects are excluded of TM because they are on the same disk.

I also tried to share a folder on this disk as TM-backup-folder for other devices. But with my own device does not list this folder as available TM-backup-drive. Unfortunately I don't have any other apple-device to know if the share works at all.

I know that I have very specific demands but please refrain from suggesting additional disks/drives etc. It would be great to find a option which covers flexibility in backup size, "backup-ability" of all stored data on the same drive and Mac OS extended (journaled) as format.


Thank you in advance for your suggestions and help!

Posted on Apr 9, 2021 12:53 PM

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Posted on Apr 10, 2021 1:08 PM

That is correct, but 10.15 (Catalina) will only do Time Machine backups to HFS+ disks, not to APFS. APFS is not an option for 10.15 Time Machine backups.


Big Sur can backup to APFS disks, but the entire volume must be dedicated to Time Machine. There can be other APFS volumes on the same physical drive, however, which seems to be what you want. That said, you said upgrading to Big Sur was not an option for you due to software incompatibility.


With 10.15, I think the option that best fits your requirements is to configure multiple volumes of fixed size on the drive that contains your Time Machine backup. Time Machine will live within its own volume and delete backups from the past as needed to stay within that box. I would not trust that terminal command as a long term solution, and there have been posts in these Discussions from people whose files that were co-located on a Time Machine volume had disappeared. That physical drive would then also be a single point of failure now for multiple things (data and backup) so you need to reliably backup the data volumes on that drive to somewhere else. Personally, I never store original data on the same physical drive as my Time Machine backup, but you might not share that point of view.


Eventually, you should see what it takes to move on to Big Sur, which does provide you with more flexibility. Every year Apple introduces a new MacOS and eventually, someday, Catalina will cease to be supported.

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Question marked as Top-ranking reply

Apr 10, 2021 1:08 PM in response to flow96

That is correct, but 10.15 (Catalina) will only do Time Machine backups to HFS+ disks, not to APFS. APFS is not an option for 10.15 Time Machine backups.


Big Sur can backup to APFS disks, but the entire volume must be dedicated to Time Machine. There can be other APFS volumes on the same physical drive, however, which seems to be what you want. That said, you said upgrading to Big Sur was not an option for you due to software incompatibility.


With 10.15, I think the option that best fits your requirements is to configure multiple volumes of fixed size on the drive that contains your Time Machine backup. Time Machine will live within its own volume and delete backups from the past as needed to stay within that box. I would not trust that terminal command as a long term solution, and there have been posts in these Discussions from people whose files that were co-located on a Time Machine volume had disappeared. That physical drive would then also be a single point of failure now for multiple things (data and backup) so you need to reliably backup the data volumes on that drive to somewhere else. Personally, I never store original data on the same physical drive as my Time Machine backup, but you might not share that point of view.


Eventually, you should see what it takes to move on to Big Sur, which does provide you with more flexibility. Every year Apple introduces a new MacOS and eventually, someday, Catalina will cease to be supported.

Apr 10, 2021 9:18 AM in response to flow96

With Big Sur one cannot use a Time Machine backup drive for other storage, the entire volume must be dedicated to Time Machine. With Catalina you can use the backup drive for other storage, but it is strongly recommended not to. Time Machine grows in its need for disk space -- your terminal command may limit that but what will it do when it reaches the limit you have specified? Is that behavior well understood?


One other problem with using the Time Machine disk for other storage is that the MacOS takes over the Time Machine backup drive and even modifies some of the permissions once Time Machine backups start. You may not notice that at first but at some point down the road, it may (will?) create conflicts. You can see this yourself by looking at the permissions for the volume that your Time Machine backup is stored on, compare it with a drive used only for regular storage.


If you proceed anyway with using the disk for both Time Machine and other storage, you may be able to backup the other storage using a clone program like Carbon Copy Cloner or SuperDuper and telling it to exclude the Time Machine folders from the files it backs up.


Your setup sounds complex and vulnerable and certainly not easy to reliably back up. I would rethink it. I'm not trying to be difficult but rather helpful. We use huge numbers of disks where I work and we plan for them to eventually fail by arranging robust plans to recover. Keep in mind all disks do fail eventually, do you have a robust backup scheme that will enable you to recover in a straightforward way? The use of RAID does help but entire devices do fail also.

Apr 10, 2021 12:53 PM in response to steve626

Thank you very much for your quick answer and your competent information!

With backing up to APFS I meant I could create several APFS volumes on the same disk, which are (more or less) flexible in size. So i could store data on the same physical disk but in different volumes to TM backup --> can backup the data to the other volume and still have the flexibility. Or have I missunderstood something?

Backup data stored beside a local TimeMachine backup

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