Will lossless audio work via Airplay 2 and my receiver?

Just checked Apple lossless vs. Deezer HIFI. Setup: iPad Pro>Airplay2 LG TV>Optical Rotel 1570 amp>Dynaudio speakers

To my ears Apple Music sounded noticeably inferior to Deezer. Much less volume, image and sparkle. It actually sounded muffled and dull without even comparison with Deezer. The moment I turned it on I didn’t like it. Switching to Deezer was a bliss to my ears. The thing is that sound degradation on Apple Music is so great that it just cannot be explained by aac and flac difference. It was much bigger than that.

Dont know what to think. I was a bit shocked by the results. Was going to switch to AM from Deezer cause it’s much cheaper and a bit more convenient since I’m on App,e ecosystem.

Have you compared the exact same songs at the same quality? I know it seems like an obvious question, but comparing different songs at different qualities is apples to oranges comparison. One thing I did notice about Apple Music content are absolute volume differences between songs, even from the same album sometimes. What I mean by this is that some songs play very quiet, and others play very loud. This can be so prominent and problematic sometimes that I actually have to physically adjust volume by quite a bit. I have not had this type of experience with Tidal or with Spotify. (Lossless on Tidal at least). I do not use volume normalization anywhere.

@Marco K.,

I'm 4 meters away from my hi-fi system, so I think it makes more sense to stream the music wirelessly.

"AirPlay audio means 16/44.1 kHz", so it is meaningless to set my iPad Wi-Fi Streaming audio quality as hi-rez lossless, right?

I use NAD M12 as my streamer, and iPad Air 4 as source. How would you do in order to listen to hi-rez Apple Music on this setting? Much appreciate.

https://nadelectronics.com/product/m12-digital-preamp-dac/

Hi JLinger,

I don’t know specifically the NAD M12. As far as I understand, it offers AirPlay capability through a module.

With AirPlay, hi-res is indeed “wasted” due to its 44.1 kHz limit. ALAC lossless, on other hand, is a recommended choice because AirPlay is lossless capable. Besides most Apple Music’s tracks are 44.1 kHz.

Apple Music played from iPad via AirPlay 2, unfortunately, currently isn’t bit perfect. Moreover often it’s forcefully converted to AAC. Bit perfect and ALAC playback are maintained if used with AirPlay 1. Check the NAD module which AirPlay uses (1 or 2).

Speaking of hi-res, currently the only way to achieve it with iPad is with an USB adapter coupled with an USB DAC. I get that handling a 4 m cable isn’t exactly ideal. Unfortunately, again, the USB adapter doesn’t provide bit perfect playback (ALAC is maintained).

> Speaking of hi-res, currently, the only way to achieve it with an iPad is with a USB adapter coupled with a USB DAC.

That's what I have done with my iPhone. I connected my iPhone 11 Pro to a Belkin Lightning Audio + Charge RockStar™ adapter. One of the Lightning ports connects to power, and the other port to an Apple Lightning to USB Camera Adapter, then to the DAC. It looks terrible, but unless the DAC can supply power to the iPad or iPhone, this is what I need.

Thank you Marco, i've been looking for this answer since AM launched hi-rez lossless.

Till now no one explained this as clear and understandable as you!! Really appreciate.

This explains why technically hi-rez provides better bit rate vs. my CD ripped local files, and still ripped file sounds better while I play same song via same DAC. At the end, AirPlay doesn't support hi-rez lossless.... bitter truth it is.

For the time being I'll keep AM as my music source since the price performance ratio is reasonable for a 6ppl usage.

Maybe can really enjoy hi-rez only when AirPlay supports higher bit-rate streaming... Just not sure whether this is the plan for Apple.

Nobody knows Apple’s plans for AirPlay in hi-res mode.

I’d like to see Apple leveraging its AirPlay protocol for “audiophile” needs.

The currently missed bit perfect thing and forced AAC conversion are both a little bit disappointing, especially if compared with other services like Qobuz, which provides bit perfect playback.

I hope that at least these two issues will be fixed, eventually.

If streaming from a Mac via Airplay 2 to an Airport Express but with everything connected by ethernet (not WiFi), does the desktop Apple Music app still force convert any streamed music (not local files) to AAC even if preferences are set to lossless?

And if using another Mac desktop app like Idagio that streams lossless 16-bit/44.1kHz FLAC files, is the Airport Express still going to resample that to 48kHz (rather than just play it at 44.1kHz) and therefore not be bit perfect?

If you choose AirPlay 2 destination (Airport Express) system-wide (via the menu bar rather than within Music app) then the streaming is bit perfect regardelss the connection (Ethernet or Wi-Fi).

AirPlay 2 chosen within the Muisc app doesn’t provide a bit perfect streaming.

AFAIK, AirportExpress doesn’t resample to 48 kHz. Its output is set to 44.1 kHz. It will receive a bit perfect streaming from Idagio app (assuming that the app isn’t faulty in this regard like the Music app).

Thanks! One more question... When using the Idagio app on my iPhone or iPad, set to lossless FLAC 16-bit / 44.1 kHz streaming quality, and sending it over AirPlay2 via wifi to my Airport Express, which is connected via an optical cable to my receiver, my receiver shows the input as 44.1 kHz. So is that FLAC audio stream from Idagio being passed thru all the way to my receiver untouched, without my iPhone or Airport Express doing any conversion? And the receiver's DAC is then decoding the FLAC stream?

Assuming the Idagio app works correctly (not like the current Music app), yes, the DAC will receive an unaltered FLAC stream from your iPhone/iPad.

AirportExpress is capable of lossless streaming up to 44.1 kHz via AirPlay 2.

Unfortunately it has been proved that with AirPlay 2 devices Apple Music app on iPad doesn't send a bit perfect stream and often it's converted to AAC (lossy).

With AirPlay 1 devices the stream is bit perfect and lossless (ALAC).

Here's a thread where I participated addressing, among other things, this issue:

https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/bits-and-bytes/apple-music-lossless-mess-part-2-airplay-r1026

Yes it will work if you pass the signal from your iOS device through a wired external DAC before input to your amplifier.

Apple actually references this as a requirement on their site re lossless audio.

I have an Naim Uniti Nova and over Airplay 2 it’s definitely not even a 16 bit stream - the difference with the native Tidal stream on the same song is quite noticeable.

On the Naim forums the solutions are outlined clearly - and personally I’ve ordered a Topping D10s external USB DAC to solve the problem.

You can take a simple wired Lightning / USB-C to 3.5mm Jack to RCA to your amp from your iPad or iPhone. I e-mailed Naim themselves and they recommended this option !! But actually you’ll only get a maximum 24bit / 48khz transfer not 96 or 192khz (Hi Res Lossless) using this solution.

Until Airplay is updated to facilitate Hi Res streaming we’re all stuck with the external DAC solution 🤷‍♂️.

Unless you use Mac OS for ALAC Airplay

https://techsupport.cambridgeaudio.com/hc/en-us/articles/4402778633873-Streaming-Apple-Music-over-AirPlay

Streaming Apple Music over AirPlay

At present, Apple AirPlay supports a maximum sample rate and bit depth of 44.1 kHz/16bit. This is

a limitation of Apple's technology that may or may not receive further expansion in the future.

Therefore, Cambridge Audio products that support AirPlay, are limited to this sample rate and bit

depth. This means Apple's recent announcement of Loseless Audio is not supported in a loseless

format over AirPlay and will be restricted to the above mentioned resolution.

It is to be expected that when streaming from Apple Music, on an iPhone, over AirPlay to a

Cambridge Audio network player, the resolution will be 44.1kHz/16bit AAC.

When streaming from a Mac (or Windows PC), this will adjust to 44.1kHz/16bit ALAC.

The point above was that Apple is adding lossless over AirPlay for the HomePod, so this means it can be done for other devices as well. It wasn’t a question on whether currently other devices support this - they don’t. We’re all hoping this improvement gets expanded to other devices as well.