FONT BOOK: How to delete some non-favourable fonts?

I didn't have that Apple Symbol font appear in Pages v11.* until I did add (I think, because I am on the iPad now) Israeli as an additional language preference. Can't check now as I am on the road without that Mac.

Kurt Lang wrote:

I am really tired of you posting this misleading, and false nonsense.

No, third party apps DO NOT load everything they can find on the disk. They load the fonts that are ENABLED. Just as they should, and have for DECADES.

It's not quite as simple as that.

I will admit that I think I am partially responsible. It turns out that there is an "availableFonts" API that lists virtually all enabled fonts on the system, including the fonts-that-shall-not-be-named. So, if you did happen to be a multinational corporation trying to do the absolute, bare minimum, then that might result in in a list of hundreds of fonts.

When I wrote my "Multilingual Font Lister" app, I didn't use that "availableFonts" API. Since I don't work for six-figure salary at a major software company, of course I tried to be a little fancy and show users how Apple's font collections are supposed to work. So, when I got a list of fonts in the "AllFonts" collection, it did not include any of these fonts.

Also, since I was actually trying to demonstrate things with fonts, I made a point to show how one could enable or disable fonts based on language. Technically, that was a few minutes of "extra work". While I admit some responsibility for the confusion over "loading everything they can find on disk" vs. calling "availableFonts", I still feel that these companies had a responsibility to test their software, look at the user experience, and do just a little bit more than the bare minimum.

Apple is the only vendor doing it wrong by preventing you from controlling the fonts you do, or do not need to see or use.

I do not agree with this. Apple's "availableFonts" API definitely does not work properly. But then, there are lots and lots of Apple APIs that don't work properly. A developer has a responsibility to look for alternative methods and workarounds if initial attempts at a solution are less than ideal. They shouldn't just give up and sit on their hands because one specific method isn't useable.

There is absolutely nothing stopping any third party developer from controlling which fonts are visible and available for use. Maybe they could use the "AllFonts" collection instead. Maybe they could filter "availableFonts" for the "supplemental" or "foreign" fonts. There is absolutely no "preventing" of any kind. There is an infinite number of possibilities. Mathematically speaking, the fact that there is one specific possibility, calling "availableFonts" and being done with it, that is not ideal does not make the number "infinity" "finite".

Proof? I've mentioned it in various other topics like this that you intentionally ignore. Go ahead, open Pages or any other app written by Apple and just try to use an active font Apple hides from you. A font you may be required to use in order to complete a client's project.

Again, if you are being paid by a client to use a specific font, there is absolutely nothing preventing you from installing that font and using it. You wouldn't even need to do that if you are "completing" a client's project. The only time you can't select these fonts is when you have a new document. If you have a document that already uses the font, then it shows up in Pages just fine. This is because these fonts are specifically designed for...wait for it..."document support".

And finally, yes, yes, yes. I know you have that one specific client that wants to use only their specific, corrupted version of "Helvetica" from 1983 and that's a name conflict with a system font. **** you Apple!!!! <shakes fist defiantly>

Kurt Lang wrote:

Ask the developer of the software that you use fonts in to write their app to correctly access the Fonts instead of just loading everything they can find stored on disk.

They are writing their Mac software incorrectly which is causing your problem.

I am really tired of you posting this misleading, and false nonsense.

And I'm tired of you defending the incompetent programmers that sell you software that doesn't work the way you need.

o, third party apps DO NOT load everything they can find on the disk. They load the fonts that are ENABLED. Just as they should, and have for DECADES.

Then why are they showing every font found on disk? Why aren't they showing you the collections you curated in Font Book.

And the decades of that stupid paradigm are over. Apple gave users a method to create collections of fonts that they want to see, and the software companies should be providing a method of showing only the collections they want to see.

Apple is the only vendor doing it wrong by preventing you from controlling the fonts you do, or do not need to see or use.

Apple gave us full control of the fonts we want. We can curate any specialized collection of fonts we want to use.

Proof? I've mentioned it in various other topics like this that you intentionally ignore. Go ahead, open Pages or any other app written by Apple and just try to use an active font Apple hides from you. A font you may be required to use in order to complete a client's project.

Etresoft already blew that bs out of the water.

Then why are they showing every font found on disk?

You don't read very well. I clearly stated they show you every active/enabled font. Nothing more. If these apps did as you say, they would be showing the over 15,000 fonts I have on the drive. Just because Font Book refuses to list every font the OS installed, doesn't mean they aren't active.

Why aren't they showing you the collections you curated in Font Book.

I don't use that worthless app.

Apple gave us full control of the fonts we want. We can curate any specialized collection of fonts we want to use.

No, they absolutely did not, and do not. Did you not notice there are hundreds of fonts that don't even list in Font Book, or display in Apple's apps? That's an awful lot of control you don't have.

Etresoft already blew that bs out of the water.

Bull. Go ahead. Open up Pages and try to use Athelas, Super Clarendon and many others without jumping through hoops to get those fonts into Pages, or any of Apple's other apps. Notice that even when you do, Pages still pretends the font doesn't exist. I copied some text from Word into Pages using Athelas. It was obviously Athelas (a seriffed font), but if you highlight the text, Pages tells you it's Helvetica.

Kurt Lang wrote:

Bull. Go ahead. Open up Pages and try to use Athelas, Super Clarendon and many others without jumping through hoops to get those fonts into Pages, or any of Apple's other apps. Notice that even when you do, Pages still pretends the font doesn't exist.

Seems fine here.

Pages didn't automatically use those fonts, however. It displayed a "Missing fonts" dialog and I had to choose to replace Athelas with Athelas and the same for Superclarendon. Although that is functional, it is also confusing. It is possible they did that on purpose, to alert the user that those are non-standard fonts. But once those fonts are used, they are available for any Pages document, even newly created ones. TextEdit, by comparison, just accepts the document as is, as if those fonts were there the whole time. But TextEdit also has a similar "recent fonts" section where I can now use those fonts in new documents.

I copied some text from Word into Pages using Athelas. It was obviously Athelas (a seriffed font), but if you highlight the text, Pages tells you it's Helvetica.

It sounds like you are running into Font Menu Cleaner's big caveat. If you use it to disable those fonts, then they are disabled and unavailable. It's a hack, not a fix. I had to re-enable those two fonts to test this.

It's been so long since I last tested this, I had forgotten I had to first save and close the Pages document, then reopen it before it would show the fonts I bridged over from Word before the names would appear in Pages' font list.

If you use it to disable those fonts, then they are disabled and unavailable. It's a hack, not a fix. I had to re-enable those two fonts to test this.

Yes, that's a given, or Word wouldn't have been able to see these fonts, either. Still a good thing to mention for others trying such testing.

But the issue for many users (mainly publishing) is it shouldn't be this hard - only in Apple's apps - to use active fonts that are on the system.

The current version of MS Office does show collections that have been defined in Apple Font Book.

Yup. But it also shows everything that's active below that. Still, if the only fonts you care about are those you made a set for in Font Book, they're always right at the top and you can ignore the rest. And it of course is only helpful to those who use, and prefer Font Book.

You don't read very well. I clearly stated they show you every active/enabled font. Nothing more. If these apps did as you say, they would be showing the over 15,000 fonts I have on the drive. Just because Font Book refuses to list every font the OS installed, doesn't mean they aren't active.

Well, that's a very big font list you have. I guess it impresses someone.

The fact that they don't show up means you are using some 30-year old "hide the fonts" system that was horrible when originally devised. The Finder (file system) isn't a content management system. It is a file management system (and not very good at that, either).

Ask the developer of the software that you use fonts in to write their app to correctly access the Fonts instead of just loading everything they can find stored on disk.

I already told you why. The developers of the apps you use are incompetent. They can’t bother to spend five to ten minutes writing their font management code correctly.

Oh, you mean that Symbol font that only appears if you have the Israeli or Arabic languages installed? 🤪

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Josdn-t wrote:

I am fully aware about English speakers are not all the world.

Meanwhile I would emphasize only do I open the Font Book to see those non-favourable fonts, needless to open either Illustrator or Photoshop or CorelDRAW as it seems those non-favourable fonts exist in the Font Book by default !

People now are trying to accept living together with coronavirus, so do I with non-favourable fonts :-)))

Again, Thank You, etresoft !

You should be able to make collections of fonts in Font Book, and your apps should provide the ability to select the collections to load. That’s how it is supposed to work, but the apps you use refuse to give you that capability. You need to tell them to write their apps correctly.