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Time Machine Backups to external drive over network

Until I have the time to buy and figure out using a NAS, I'm going to try to connect an external WD Red HD (in a 3rd party enclosure) to my iMac running OS 11.6 and share the drive to do Time Machine backups for a MacBook and MacBook Air (also running OS 11.6) over my Orbi wireless network. I've read about it and have the general setup figured out but still have a couple questions.


1) I've been backing up all 3 computers by connecting each via USB to do the Time Machine backups as needed. Each of the 3 computers have their own partition on the drive. Is there any way to preserve those backups, or should I just reformat the drive and start fresh?


2) If I'm starting over, should I format it in APFS, and should I make separate partitions or containers or folders to back each up to, or just leave it after formatting and let the software figure it out?


3) Will everything continue to backup as long as the iMac is turned on, even if it's asleep overnight?


Thanks for any help.

Posted on Oct 2, 2021 10:01 AM

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Posted on Oct 3, 2021 4:30 PM

Is there any way to preserve those backups, or should I just reformat the drive and start fresh?


Sorry but no.. Time Machine uses a different backup method (to Sparsebundle) over network.. whereas to local disk it creates a backup more directly.. We used to be able to fudge things.. but fudging is over. Especially on Big Sur which is more Surly than Big!!

Of course there is no need to reformat your existing USB drive.. just go out and buy a new one.. they are CHEAP as CHIPS (potato not silicon ones). Just buy a more standard sealed type USB for the job.. over network speed will not be as fast as USB3 locally.


should I format it in APFS


No.. stick to HFS+. What will happen is the Mac backing up will create an APFS container in the sparsebundle.. so you can leave it to software.


and should I make separate partitions or containers or folders to back each up to.


No.. just as the old Time Machine backup to Time Capsule worked with a single partition.. Time Machine will keep each computer separate by using Sparsebundles.. this is a virtual disk and amounts to the same thing as partitions.

Otherwise you need to setup 3 separate shares on the Mac to handle the 3 partitions you create.. that is certainly doable.. but I would just keep things as simple as possible.


Will everything continue to backup as long as the iMac is turned on, even if it's asleep overnight?


Now this is NOT a question that I can easily answer. I 100% trust experimental science over theory.. and I have not tried it so I am guessing..

In previous Mac OS versions.. backup during sleep was a major cause of corruption. I will need to hunt for the Apple statements which are few and far between when it says something doesn't work. But there is experience to say it was better NOT to try. This is the computer source not target.. but IMHO stick to a system of learning the bugs before you commit.

ie that is why you should buy a new USB drive.. and keep doing the backups directly for a few weeks.. even if you only do it once a week as long as you have some backup for your current files happening like iCloud. Or use a more reliable backup software like Carbon Copy Cloner to backup just your user files.


I note using a desktop Computer as target to run Time Machine was introduced at High Sierra.. although there were plenty of more dubious attempts beforehand. The old server additions did allow Time Machine to work.. on a Mac setup as Server.. which Apple also killed off.. so the extensions were added to the ordinary Mac OS. Since Apple knew the Time Capsule was headed for demise.. they had at least something to offer in its place.

BUTT.. Big FATT UGLY BUTT.. it was not hugely successful. There are a number of people who tried and reported it failed after x days.. In my testing it was terrible. Now word is that Big Sur fixed a lot of those bugs.. so it is worth a go.. but I would not trust it until it proves trustworthy.


Let me also add.. Carbon Copy Cloner is far more reliable and keeps decent logs. I have no pecuniary interest but have used it a long time to overcome the typical Time Machine warning.. I just shat in my nest so I am going to wipe out everything and start over.

That was happening 2-6 times a year depending on the setup in Network backups.. even to a Time Capsule.

CCC is much more reliable.. the one license covers multiple computers in your home and you can create separate folders and store a Sparsebundle for each Mac.. which is much more flexible than TM. It is free to download and use for a month.. so worth giving it a try.


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Question marked as Top-ranking reply

Oct 3, 2021 4:30 PM in response to djborden

Is there any way to preserve those backups, or should I just reformat the drive and start fresh?


Sorry but no.. Time Machine uses a different backup method (to Sparsebundle) over network.. whereas to local disk it creates a backup more directly.. We used to be able to fudge things.. but fudging is over. Especially on Big Sur which is more Surly than Big!!

Of course there is no need to reformat your existing USB drive.. just go out and buy a new one.. they are CHEAP as CHIPS (potato not silicon ones). Just buy a more standard sealed type USB for the job.. over network speed will not be as fast as USB3 locally.


should I format it in APFS


No.. stick to HFS+. What will happen is the Mac backing up will create an APFS container in the sparsebundle.. so you can leave it to software.


and should I make separate partitions or containers or folders to back each up to.


No.. just as the old Time Machine backup to Time Capsule worked with a single partition.. Time Machine will keep each computer separate by using Sparsebundles.. this is a virtual disk and amounts to the same thing as partitions.

Otherwise you need to setup 3 separate shares on the Mac to handle the 3 partitions you create.. that is certainly doable.. but I would just keep things as simple as possible.


Will everything continue to backup as long as the iMac is turned on, even if it's asleep overnight?


Now this is NOT a question that I can easily answer. I 100% trust experimental science over theory.. and I have not tried it so I am guessing..

In previous Mac OS versions.. backup during sleep was a major cause of corruption. I will need to hunt for the Apple statements which are few and far between when it says something doesn't work. But there is experience to say it was better NOT to try. This is the computer source not target.. but IMHO stick to a system of learning the bugs before you commit.

ie that is why you should buy a new USB drive.. and keep doing the backups directly for a few weeks.. even if you only do it once a week as long as you have some backup for your current files happening like iCloud. Or use a more reliable backup software like Carbon Copy Cloner to backup just your user files.


I note using a desktop Computer as target to run Time Machine was introduced at High Sierra.. although there were plenty of more dubious attempts beforehand. The old server additions did allow Time Machine to work.. on a Mac setup as Server.. which Apple also killed off.. so the extensions were added to the ordinary Mac OS. Since Apple knew the Time Capsule was headed for demise.. they had at least something to offer in its place.

BUTT.. Big FATT UGLY BUTT.. it was not hugely successful. There are a number of people who tried and reported it failed after x days.. In my testing it was terrible. Now word is that Big Sur fixed a lot of those bugs.. so it is worth a go.. but I would not trust it until it proves trustworthy.


Let me also add.. Carbon Copy Cloner is far more reliable and keeps decent logs. I have no pecuniary interest but have used it a long time to overcome the typical Time Machine warning.. I just shat in my nest so I am going to wipe out everything and start over.

That was happening 2-6 times a year depending on the setup in Network backups.. even to a Time Capsule.

CCC is much more reliable.. the one license covers multiple computers in your home and you can create separate folders and store a Sparsebundle for each Mac.. which is much more flexible than TM. It is free to download and use for a month.. so worth giving it a try.


Oct 5, 2021 5:12 AM in response to LaPastenague

Well, after getting it to work backing up the laptops over the network, I then tried to back up the iMac that the external HD was connected to (via USB). It said the disk was not a Time Machine disk and required I reformat it to use it as such with the iMac. So given the other potential pitfalls you mentioned, I'm going to abandon this idea and go with a NAS.


Since I'll probably just be using the NAS for Time Machine Backups, and that most people seem to recommend Synology products, is there a model that you would suggest, or one to stay away from? I'm looking at the DS-120j/220j, DS-118/218j, and the DS-220+.


Thanks



Oct 5, 2021 2:10 PM in response to djborden

Think more broadly.

Yes, Big Sur requires local backup disk to be formatted APFS. You forgot to mention this requirement.. and it is still possible by partitioning the USB and using one partition for local disk.. using APFS and the other partition HFS+.

Or buying another USB disk since a 1TB portable drive sell for peanuts.


You can also use Carbon Copy Cloner which allows you to backup to HFS+ using Sparsebundle.. even on locally connected disk. You miss out on bootable clone but it is still a clone.


IF you go Synology the cheapest is fine. Personally I would always buy a two bay.. so 220j.. or 218j if still available. 220+ is higher end model that would be more suited to real NAS use, transcoding and the like.

I'm looking at the DS-120j/220j, DS-118/218j, and the DS-220+.


People often start with a 2 bay and then realise they need 4 bay a few years later. You do tend to see plenty of those 2bay for sale. Nothing wrong with buying second hand one as long as it is working of course.

And you can buy one big disk to start with.. 8TB for example is a good size. But 4TB is plenty for most people.. add another disk if you fill it up.. assuming you are using it for backup only. You can keep the 2 disks as separate storage drives rather then run them in raid.

Performance difference between 2015 to 2020 model is not great. And firmware makes no big difference.. the setup for v6 DSM and v7 will be near identical. (Synology use year code ... i.e. 220 is 2020 model. 218 is 2018 model.. don't you just love logically assigned names).

Time Machine Backups to external drive over network

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