Router questions and advice re: AirPort Extreme 5th Generation

Hi all--

I wanted to share my current situation as I think we are in the same boat. I have 4 Airport Extremes --1 set as router the other 3 set to bridge mode to "extend a network". I have recently upgraded to Gigabit (1.2 Mbps) from Comcast and I can tell you that the Airport extremes cannot produce enough download speed. At times I may get 7xx or 5xx Mbps but it isn't consistent -and of course that would only be on the main unit when on the 5gig network. Typically I am in the 290-350 range.

If you upgrade your plan you will see improved upload speeds ( my plan gives me 40 up) but you will NOT see the best download speeds that you are paying for.

So yes it is off to the store for new routers!! I have seen and read a lot of good things about the NETGEAR Orbi RBK75x ( where x= the number of units in the package for a mesh system--depending on your home square footage and layout

I have a two story with a finished basement so I like to put one on each floor and then one more for the entire backyard / pool/ tiki bar area. They seem to priced best on Amazon. I am still reading up on the differences in the lines RBK75x. vs RBK85x but since I really don't have very many Wifi 6 devices --maybe one-- it's going to be a while until I really need that speed so I have read not to get sucked into the false claims of blinding speed-- when most people don't have the devices to take advantage of it anyway!

Question basically is, is this router in any way throttling speed, or less 'capable' in any way

While newer routers offer higher speeds, the 5th Gen AirPort Extreme is capable of 325-350 Mbps download and upload speeds over a wired Ethernet cable connection. WiFi speeds would be about the same or less depending on the location of the computer with the router.

If you need 400+ Mbps speeds, then is is time to replace the AirPorts.

I also have a 4th Gen unit attached to extend wi-fi.

If the 4th Gen AirPort is "attached" to the 5th Gen using a wired Ethernet cable connection, you could expect about the same performance with the 4th Gen AirPort as the 5th Gen.

But.....if the 4th Gen AirPort is "attached" to the 5th Gen using a wireless connection, then this will typically reduce speeds in the extended area by half or more. Nature of the beast when you try to extend using a wireless connection between AirPorts.

So, the big question here with your current network would be........how does the 4th Gen connect to the 5th Gen?

Have you checked speeds in the extended area near the 4th Gen AirPort to see how things are working in that area?

I think speed is improved with wi-fi in the extended area...cannot say definitively.

Speeds should be about the same in the extended area as the main area with the AirPorts connected together using Ethernet, since there is zero speed loss through an Ethernet cable up to 100 meters or about 325 feet.

So it sounds like the best improvement I might make would be to step up to the higher tier ISP internet speed which I think is 400mb up 20m down --so long as the 5th Gen Extreme would still pass that speed level ?

As I noted above, the top speed for the 5th Gen AirPort acting as a router might be about 350 Mbps. Average would be about 320-330 Mbps in my experience with the 5th Gen and 6th Gen AirPorts.

It won't hurt to go ahead and move up the 400 Mbps plan now if you don't want to replace the AirPorts just yet, but if your ISP offers a 300 Mbps plan and your current modem will handle 300 Mbps, it might make sense to go with that as an interim step, if you are interested in another year or two of service from the AirPorts.

In another year or two, chances are your ISP will offer a 500 Mpbs or higher plan.

Dong has a good review going into detail on the Netgear Orbi setup ..

https://dongknows.com/netgear-orbi-ax4200-rbk752-review/

You can do what you want with one wired and the others via wifi backhaul.

I may have the ability to run ONE of the remotes --downstairs below main "router" ..via ethernet.

If I CAN do that, can I still hook up the other 2 via wireless backhaul?

Yes, that should be fine.

Most people find 4 wireless nodes in a large house one too many because you cannot distance them enough.. in some cases with houses made of concrete and double brick the loss is so high then it is ok to run 4.. but for most people 3 is enough.

Note the "AirPort Extreme" could be renamed "Airport Mediocre" as wifi signal strength at best is fairly poor, subpar, worse than average and getting worse as they age.. and much worse extending.. so modern mesh will give better coverage with less units.. Unless you live in a missile silo with 3' thick concrete walls.

So far on the ethernet-connected Mac I've seen about 350 down,

The AirPorts are doing remarkably well, still performing about the same as when they were new.

but more interesting is that I'm showing upload speed at 20mbps.

On a 400 Mpbs down and 20 Mbps up plan, that would be expected.

Unless you opt for a significantly more expensive business level plan with equal download and upload speeds, it is normal for upload speeds to be a fraction of download speeds......around 5%-10% or so on average.

A newer router won't help with faster upload speeds if your current plan specifies 20 Mbps upload speeds.

Sorry, I can't help much with ideas for a new router, since I only recommend products that I've used myself.....and I'm still using 2 AirPort Extremes here. But, if the AirPorts suddenly failed today, I would take a long look at the Synology router.

https://www.synology.com/en-us/products/RT2600ac

I wanted to share my current situation as I think we are in the same boat. I have 4 Airport Extremes --1 set as router the other 3 set to bridge mode to "extend a network".

If the 3 Bridge Mode AirPorts are connected to the main AirPort using Ethernet.....as they should be for best performance......then "extend a wireless network" is not the correct setting to use.

If the 3 Bridge Mode AirPorts are connecting to the main AirPort using only a wireless connection, you are losing a tremendous amount of speed on the network.

Same thing with any new "mesh" network. The best performing mesh systems always have the "remote" access points all connecting to the main router using Ethernet connections.

They seldom come in packs of more than 3 so you can buy a 3 pack and see how it goes.. then one more if needed. The article noted you can mix the better RBK85 so as main router unit it may suit to use the better unit if you do need to go 4.

I have about 60 devices online now between laptops, phones tablets smart TVs, 7 directv boxes, 5 Alexas, at least 3 0r 4 apple tvs and about 30 smart wifi bulbs and plugs

I should also note that 2.4ghz signal will be vital to your house working properly. Most IoT work only on 2.4ghz.. which is sometimes poorer in later equipment since it has such low connection speed. It maybe worth keeping your Extremes until you have settled in the new Orbi system as you can always add the airport to a node by ethernet just to take up the 2.4ghz slack if you still have a dark area.. the airport will act purely as AP and it won't matter they are not part of the mesh.. you could use different wifi name.. same as you presently use and so keep the Orbi for the products where handoff and roaming are vital to operation which won't affect most IoT products.

Understood -- but I don't have the ability to run ethernet cables to all the remote access points. I wanted to ask you though,

I may have the ability to run ONE of the remotes --downstairs below main "router" ..via ethernet.

If I CAN do that, can I still hook up the other 2 via wireless backhaul? That would provide (hopefully) enough speed where I need it. One of the remote access points will be for the backyard so speed is NOT mission critical, and the other wireless access point would be for the upstairs bedrooms. I don't really know if I need as many Orbis as I have Airport Extremes. but I am assuming I will. I have about 60 devices online now between laptops, phones tablets smart TVs, 7 directv boxes, 5 Alexas, at least 3 0r 4 apple tvs and about 30 smart wifi bulbs and plugs, and its all working with the Airport Extremes... so I figure it has to be better with Orbis... no? By all means if you have recommendations I am ALL EARS!!

Good luck!

So far on the ethernet-connected Mac I've seen about 350 down,

but more interesting is that I'm showing upload speed at 20mbps.

As Bob commented the Airports are doing remarkably well considering their ages.

You might do slightly better on download using IPv6 if your ISP allows it. Set IPv6 to automatic in the Extreme and on the computer .. you should get a real IPv6 address if it is available.. and that can give lower latency albeit download cannot do much better since the 400Mbps limit from ISP will block anything faster.

That said I do think I'll shop around for a newer

router. Any recommendations on a good substitute for Mac welcome..

Read up the reviews here. I find Dong helpful without being too technical.. Mesh is the way forward for most people in larger houses.

https://dongknows.com/buying-guide/

The Synology are also great but getting old now and so far no timing from Synology on AX or if they will even stay in the market. Definitely don't want to buy routers from company that no longer makes them since firmware upgrades for security are important.