Why is there no “cancel” button anywhere in OS X?

You say...

“Sometimes” doesn’t cut it. Either the Undo feature is consistent, or it might as well be non-existent.

Then you go on to say...

In a PC environment, there is virtually always a Cancel button.

"virtually"? i.e. not always.

If you don't like the interface then either let Apple know http://www.apple.com/feedback
or stop using it and go back to Windows which you obviously do like.

Doesn't take long to degenerate into a "my interface is better than your interface" rant.

Dave

You're missing the point. Apple wrote it, so that's the way it is. If you disagree, read the document, learn the rationale, and take it up with Apple. P *ing and moaning about it here is counterproductive and serves no useful purpose.

To report this issue to Apple's engineering, send a bug report or an enhancement request via its Bug Reporter system. To do this, join the Mac Developer Program—it's free and available for all Mac users and gets you a look at some development software. Since you already have an Apple username/ID, use that. Once a member, go to Apple BugReporter and file your bug report or enhancement request. The nice thing with this procedure is that you get a response and a follow-up number; thus, starting a dialog with engineering.

baltwo wrote:
You're missing the point. Apple wrote it, so that's the way it is. If you disagree, read the document, learn the rationale, and take it up with Apple. P *ing and moaning about it here is counterproductive and serves no useful purpose.

To report this issue to Apple's engineering, send a bug report or an enhancement request via its Bug Reporter system. To do this, join the Mac Developer Program—it's free and available for all Mac users and gets you a look at some development software. Since you already have an Apple username/ID, use that. Once a member, go to Apple BugReporter and file your bug report or enhancement request. The nice thing with this procedure is that you get a response and a follow-up number; thus, starting a dialog with engineering.

FYI I am an Apple Developer, I do know the normal procedures

dbsneddon wrote:
If you can give us one specific example of what you mean, you may find
that there is a cancel button. Since your "question" was rather vague it
is difficult to answer as originally put...

Dave

You must know what the OP means, it is endemic throughout OS X. Particularly preferences as he says, but it is pretty well everywhere. In a similar vein there is rarely an "Accept" button. When I make changes to settings on a Mac I am never completely sure that it has happened and have to go and try the feature I have just changed, because in a similar same context on a Window system it would not have been actioned.
This philosophy is not just part of the OS but carries across a lot of Apple apps e.g. Contacts, I am forever making changes to contacts I didn't intend and can't undo without manually undoing the edit.
In short it is much easier to make irreversible actions on a Mac than a PC.

I think you're asking for the kind of cluttered interface that Mac is not about. Just like, click the checkbox you want in Safari preferences and close the window... that's kind of the plan. No "setup wizard" required : )

OrcaMDDDS wrote:
In Windows, there is almost always a “cancel” button to undo your changes. So, for example, if you changed a bunch of settings in windows but change your mind, you can hit “cancel” and it’ll simply undo everything you changed and exit you out of the settings window.

In OS X, this feature is non-existent.

That isn't true. It depends on the program, which depends on the programmers' philosophies. Generally, on both Mac and Windows, programs that use the old-style 1980s modal dialog boxes that make you click OK or Cancel, and generally programs that use more current modeless palettes do not have a Cancel button because they are based on a model where once you click a setting it's applied; sometimes you can use the Undo command to back out of that instead of a Cancel button.

The new way makes more sense in some situations. A Cancel button tends to throw out everything you entered, even if you want to keep some changes and discard other changes. The Undo command can allow you to get out of just the last change if that's the only one that's wrong.

Many apps on both Mac and Windows are moving towards the instant-apply modeless model, which is actually a lot like you see in many browser-based web apps.

On the Mac there is actually a Cancel button in lots of places. It is in every Open and Save dialog. It's inside the dialogs in all of the Microsoft Office apps and Adobe Suite apps on the Mac.

Having to go up to the program’s menu in order to quit the program,
because simply clicking the red dot in the top left corner won’t do it.
(Come to think of it....what exactly is this red dot for?

Mac windows are (usually) independent of the app.

For example you can open the TextEdit app, create 2 new document windows, close both windows, then open a new window, without the TextEdit app itself quitting.

The red button closes just that window (or do CMD-w instead).

To quit the app itself do CMD+q.

The only exception to this is some simple utilities which can never have more than one window open -- in that case they're usually programmed to quit the app when the one window is closed (e.g. Calculator).

Mac is a very different feel than Windows. Use it for a few months and get a feel for how things are done, and switch back if it's not to your taste. Not to say that there aren't some UI improvements I'd make myself, but if you want everything like WIndows, use Windows. You can actually install Windows on your Mac hardware and use that instead...

I have been a Mac User by choice for 4 years (and a Windows user for 22 years). However, I still have to use Windows for work purposes so I feel I can comment reasonably objectively on both. However, although I would be classified as an Apple fanboy (I buy every new Apple device as soon as it is out before I have even seen it), I am not blind to OS X shortcomings like people here seem to be. I agree with the OP that there are some glaring deficiencies in the way the OS X UI works.
In particular, I absolutely hate the single menu bar and the inability to resize a window other than in the bottom corner. The menu bar comes from the days when screen real estate was in short supply. The problem is exactly the opposite today. I hook up my MBP to my 27" iMac display and moving the mouse from one screen to the other just to get a menu option is ludicrously laborious. And as for the resizing of windows, well that's just Steve Jobs being obstinate. I also hate the inability to maximise a window - in fact I have installed Cinch, a 3rd party add on, that effectively adds the Windows style of maximisation.

Message was edited by: tonydenson

As a long time Mac user I actually agree with a lot of your complaints. I like resizing windows from any side, for instance, and I wish the Mac did it.

OK now actually the red dot works much like it does in Windows. You know how in Windows, if a program has multi-window capability, there's an X box in the corner to close the whole app, and then each window has its own X. On the Mac, it's like the outer (application) X doesn't exist, so when you see the red button it's usually at the document level. Yes, this is inconsistent, because some Mac apps only close windows with the red button while others like System Preferences close down the whole app if you click the red button.

I just fired up Windows 7 in virtualization and realized that the reason a lot of Windows users think the red X only closes the app is because so many of the basic Windows apps don't seem to support multiple document windows...

Regarding the Cancel button, what I really think you want is the ability to reverse any action. Cancel is just a brute-force way of throwing out all actions since a modal window was opened. I can paint in Windows Paint or write in Windows Notepad and not see a Cancel button for a long time because it only belongs in modal dialogs.

Again, I think a lot of your points are valid but you're going to have to withstand some unfair criticism from the more extremist Mac users who can't admit that Windows has a better way sometimes. And no, I don't run any Windows hardware, just Macs, as I have my whole life, but Macs are not perfect.

The menu bar comes from the days when screen real estate was in short supply.

No it doesn't. It comes from the Human Interface Guidelines. The idea is that these commands are always in the same place, no moving around the screen with the window - so the File menu always occupies the same piece of screen regardless of the app you're using. Muscle memory gets you there faster than having to look.

I hook up my MBP to my 27" iMac display and moving the mouse from one screen to the other just to get a menu option is ludicrously laborious.

Two simple solutions:

a: Don't use your mouse. Every app has a large number of keyboard driven shortcuts things like command-s, to save, command-p to print. They don't take too long to learn.

b: Don't use your mouse so much. Install a wee add-on like *_ Deja Menu*_ Use a quick keyboard shortcut and you're entire menu bar is available under your Mouse, regardless of where it on screen.

Regards

TD

Terence Devlin wrote:

The menu bar comes from the days when screen real estate was in short supply.

No it doesn't. It comes from the Human Interface Guidelines. The idea is that these commands are always in the same place, no moving around the screen with the window - so the File menu always occupies the same piece of screen regardless of the app you're using. Muscle memory gets you there faster than having to look.

I hook up my MBP to my 27" iMac display and moving the mouse from one screen to the other just to get a menu option is ludicrously laborious.

Two simple solutions:

a: Don't use your mouse. Every app has a large number of keyboard driven shortcuts things like command-s, to save, command-p to print. They don't take too long to learn.

b: Don't use your mouse so much. Install a wee add-on like *_ Deja Menu*_ Use a quick keyboard shortcut and you're entire menu bar is available under your Mouse, regardless of where it on screen.

Regards

TD

When you quote the "human interface guidelines" do you mean Apple's guidelines, or some document that the whole industry has agreed on ?
As far as your suggestions a) and b), why should I change the way I want to work to overcome a shortcoming of the OS ? However, I must say I like the sound of the add-on you mention, I will definitely investigate it.

When you quote the "human interface guidelines" do you mean Apple's guidelines,

That's the one.

or some document that the whole industry has agreed on ?

There is no such document, anywhere.

why should I change the way I want to work to overcome a shortcoming of the OS ?

Of course you don't have to. And if it's a bother for you, don't. But I would suggest that the kinds of changes that you are asking for would require a major re-tooling of the OS and a great many applications. So, I would guess, it's not likely to happen with, say 10.6.5 or the next bug fix of the current OS.

Therefore you have three choices:

Change the way you work

or

Don't change the way you work and keep complaining while waiting for the next major iteration of the OS (10.7?) which isn't announced yet, and is likely several years from release in the hope that these things will change (and they may not)

or

Use another OS.

Face it, OS X is not for everyone, any more than Windows, Linx or the Command Line are.

Regards

TD

The basic premise here is, stop trying to expect OS X to behave like Windows. It won't. Just as Linux has it's way of doing things, so does Windows and OS X. That it's different from what you're used to doesn't mean it's wrong. Like it or not, it's the user who has to conform to how the interface works since you can't change it.

Having to go up to the program’s menu in order to quit the program, because simply clicking the red dot in the top left corner won’t do it. (Come to think of it....what exactly is this red dot for? It’s somewhere between quitting the program and minimizing it....and I have no idea whatsoever such an action would be useful for).

The Mac OS has always been this way. Before OS X, too. Closing the last open window doesn't necessarily mean you're done using the application. It would be a real nuisance if say, Photoshop closed every time I closed the last image I was working on, only having to wait for it to launch again for the next image. As noted by others, some apps will close if you close its only item it presents on the screen, but they are few.

I’m also trying to figure out why windows can only be resized from the lower right corner.

Because it hasn't come back yet. OS 9 and earlier had this ability, along with quite a few other "Mac" features. Spring loaded folders being one such example. It took a while for that to reappear in OS X. With OS 9 and earlier, and Microsoft's Windows, the respective companies could/can pretty do whatever they want with the interface since it's all their own code. With OS X, Apple has to get features working with the underlying UNIX base the way they want them to. You would think resizing windows from more than just the lower right corner wouldn't be that tough to implement, but we don't know that. It also could be one of those back burner items they just haven't done yet.

I’m still trying to figure out why on God’s green Earth Apple insists on using a single menu bar for every running program, especially now that most people are using monitors as large as 30” nowadays.

Screen real estate has nothing to do with it. This is also how the Mac OS was designed from day one of the original Macintosh GUI. Repeating the same menu on every open window is a waste of screen space and system resources. Like it or not, it's another one of those, "Get used to how the Mac OS works and quit trying to force it to do something it's not programmed to do." I don't go to the menus very often, but instead use the keyboard for as many shortcuts as possible. Once you memorize them, you'd be surprised how much faster you can work when one hand almost unconsciously performs one command while you're moving the mouse to a different objective, rather than wasting the movement to the menu and back.

The shortcuts are also much quicker in the Mac OS. You don't have to waste a keystroke just to first move you to the window menu, and then the command you want. You press one stroke for any command which has a keyboard shortcut assigned to it.