Level 1

9 points

Why is there no “cancel” button anywhere in OS X?

In Windows, there is almost always a “cancel” button to undo your changes. So, for example, if you changed a bunch of settings in windows but change your mind, you can hit “cancel” and it’ll simply undo everything you changed and exit you out of the settings window.

In OS X, this feature is non-existent.

Is there any particular reason for omitting this useful feature? It’s not as though a “cancel” button is a resource hog, now is it?

I mean, it seems like a no-brainer for Apple to incorporate this feature.

Mac Mini, Mac OS X (10.6.2)

Posted on Aug 4, 2010 11:06 PM

38 replies

ivan54

Level 4

2,894 points

Aug 5, 2010 6:32 AM in response to OrcaMDDDS

Hi OrcaMDDDS,

Although it might not be the Undo command you are looking for, I find the Escape key (esc) works as a cancel command for many things. For example, if I press Command Shift 4 to do a screen shot, Esc will cancel that operation.

Also, Command Z does work as undo in several places. Typically you see it under the Edit menu. Like editing in TextEdit, you can undo a cut, paste etc. In the Finder, if you trash something by mistake, you can Undo (Command Z or from the menu) and the file is put back where it came from.

I use both those tricks quite often.

Hope that helps,
ivan

Aug 5, 2010 7:28 AM in response to Kurt Lang

Kurt Lang wrote:
Screen real estate has nothing to do with it. This is also how the Mac OS was designed from day one >of the original Macintosh GUI. Repeating the same menu on every open window is a waste of screen >space and system resources.

Totally baffled by your comment above. You say that screen estate has nothing to do with it and in the very next sentence you say that it's done to avoid wasting screen space !!!
It was a great idea in its time (15 years ago) but now has no purpose (IMO).

a brody

Level 10

85,314 points

Aug 5, 2010 7:50 AM in response to OrcaMDDDS

Is there any particular reason for omitting this useful feature?

It is not omitted. Use Time Machine (which is built in to the operating system), or some other backup software which clones the system*:

http://www.macmaps.com/backup.html

Having the user expect that their data will be secure all the time from their own errors is the last thing anyone wants to do. Because hardware does fail eventually. It is not a question of if, but when. Wish I could tell my hard drive "Cancel the head crash." It is impossible to do that. By not putting up a "Cancel" button every action, Apple is naturally promoting (whether intentionally or not, which I can't say because of terms of use) a non-lazy user in terms of backing up. Because eventually a user will come to terms with their own propensity for making mistakes, and will need to learn how to backup their data to avoid mistakes from becoming costly.

People who desire to fiddle under the hood should be prepared to backup their data in case they make a mistake. By not providing a "Cancel" or "Undo" at every turn, Apple is no longer "holding your hand" at every step. Some users actually find it annoying to be held their hands, when they think they know better what they want.

Regarding the menubar, having a single consistant interface for all programs is reassuring, because you always know what program will be affected when you change things via the menubar. Numerous times in Windows, you'll find half a dozen menubars strewn all over the place with windows hiding other windows, and half the time you go and point at the top of a window, and expecting to make a change to one program, when in fact you are making a change to another program. By limiting changes to the active program by putting the menubar as one menubar for whichever application is active, Apple is actually reducing the potential for mistakes, or windows hiding each other. And for users who want more access to the windows, they can always use Exposé to navigate the windows, or the Dock to pick the application and choose a window out of the application.

It is a different principle of navigation. http://developer.apple.com has plenty of resources for learning about Apple's Human Interface Guidelines.

I do not work for Apple. I just know what I observe makes more sense in the long run for many people. But obviously from the reponses to the thread, it is not all people.

- * Links to my pages may give me compensation.

Kurt Lang

Level 9

68,744 points

Aug 5, 2010 8:06 AM in response to tonydenson

Yes, a little conflicting. Said a better way: Regardless of how much screen space is available, it's a waste of that space to repeat the same menu bar on top of every open window.

Or even better, what's the difference between pressing Alt just to access a window's menu, and then Control+S to save, when pressing Command+S does the same thing without even moving to the menu with your mouse, or having to first access the menu with a primary keystroke, such as you must do in Windows by first pressing Alt?

Just to understand my position, I first used DOS 3.1 on an IBM XT clone. Built various Windows computers starting with Win 3.1 and up through Win 98. From there, Macs became my main computer when I started my own small company in prepress. Simply put, if you're in printing, you use a Mac. There are very few Windows oriented companies in this field. Neither in advertising, design graphics, or prepress.

The point there being that yes, I also found the Mac OS a bit disorienting at first. But rather than griping about what I couldn't change, I embraced it for what it was and learned how to use it as it was designed.

Aug 5, 2010 10:13 AM in response to a brody

a brody wrote:

Regarding the menubar, having a single consistant interface for all programs is reassuring, because
you always know what program will be affected when you change things via the menubar.

I disagree. I am forever trying to type a menu command into the wrong app and it's only when it doesn't have the desired effect that I realise I've selected the wrong app. What can be simpler than just going to the top of the current window you are in. So, no, it is not reassuring.

Yer_Man

Level 10

165,984 points

Aug 5, 2010 10:44 AM in response to tonydenson

There's no "best" way, but that explains Apple's way, and, if you don't like it, use a different OS is your best option.

I choose not to use Windows or Linux for a number of reasons but one of them is because I find their interfaces are unattractive and, to me, needlessly complex. I was recently reminded of this helping a friend with a Networking issue. We found ourselves with several panels where our choices were: Cancel, Apply and Okay. Cancel is clear enough, as is Apply, but what's Okay? How does it relate to Cancel or Apply? Does it relate to them?I'm sure for a seasoned Windows user this is clear, but for me it was very confusing. But that's just me. I'm sure there may even be Guidelines somewhere to justify these choices.

But, if I'm on Windows it does me no good to say "It's never like this on a Mac!", what I have to do is work the WIndows way - even if I believe other ways are better.

Regards

TD

Network 23

Level 6

12,351 points

Aug 5, 2010 11:02 AM in response to tonydenson

tonydenson wrote:
I don't doubt you, but just cos Apple wrote it doesn't necessarily mean it's the only/best way of doing it.

Especially because Apple breaks their own guidelines ALL the time and OS X contains more inconsistencies than ever (Apple's own apps don't even implement the "green button" consistently, for instance).

Aug 5, 2010 11:06 AM in response to Yer_Man

You seem to miss the point of what I am saying. It is not "all or nothing", I have no intention of moving to another OS, that is throwing out the baby with the bathwater. I like OS X as I have already said in this thread. It just seems that it is heresy in this forum to ever criticise anything Apple.

Barney-15E

Level 10

122,324 points

Aug 5, 2010 11:14 AM in response to tonydenson

It just seems that it is heresy in this forum to ever criticise anything Apple.

Apple Discussions is not a blog. It's a forum for users to help other users with problems with Apple's products. If you want to argue the merits of any of Apple's ideas, do it somewhere else.

Aug 5, 2010 12:38 PM in response to Barney-15E

Barney-15E wrote:

It just seems that it is heresy in this forum to ever criticise anything Apple.

Apple Discussions is not a blog. It's a forum for users to help other users with problems with Apple's products. If you want to argue the merits of any of Apple's ideas, do it somewhere else.

I understand that, but sometimes a frank discussion about shortcomings of Apple software leads to suggestions from other forum members about workarounds and/or 3rd party solutions to the problem. Just toeing the party line that Apple software must be perfect because it is Apple, helps noone.

Barney-15E

Level 10

122,324 points

Aug 5, 2010 5:14 PM in response to tonydenson

Then just ask the question. Don't whine about it.

"Is there a way to add a cancel button to the preferences?"

Not that I know of. Preferences are written immediately, not when you close the window. You'd have to write your own interface to do that. You might try sending feedback to Apple, but I like not having to say, "yeah, go ahead and do what I told you to the first time."

OrcaMDDDS Author

Level 1

9 points

Aug 5, 2010 11:25 PM in response to a brody

*[quote]People who desire to fiddle under the hood should be prepared to backup their data in case they make a mistake. By not providing a "Cancel" or "Undo" at every turn, Apple is no longer "holding your hand" at every step. Some users actually find it annoying to be held their hands, when they think they know better what they want. [/quote]*

Changing your screen saver settings is “fiddling under the hood”? Yeah, and popping a zit on someone’s face is plastic surgery.

Preferences are there to be changed. That’s why they’re called “preferences”. Sometimes you realize you made a mistake before closing out of the preferences window, and you want to undo the changes you made. This can happen, especially when modifying the advanced settings in Safari. Sometimes you realize you don’t know what the **** you’re doing and you want to back out....i.e. undo what you did. Hence, a “Cancel” button. Even Microsoft acknowledges the need for this. Why can’t Apple?

[*quote]Regarding the menubar, having a single consistant interface for all programs is reassuring, because you always know what program will be affected when you change things via the menubar. [/quote]*

Ok, so let me get this straight....

You’re saying that a menu bar in the same location for every last window is better at telling you which window will be affected than a menu bar at the top of a window itself?

No offense, but either you’re just making up random statements, or you’ve never used a Mac before.

The ONLY thing that tells you what window the menu will affect is the program name at the left of the menu. For example, right now, my menu bar says Safari to the left of it. That’s the ONLY thing that identifies it as applying to Safari. If I were to have multiple programs opened, this could be a problem. The menu bar only applies to active window, and thus you always have to be aware of which window is the active window. This is a problem.

So, for example, let’s say that I have Safari and Pages opened, with the Safari and Pages windows opened side by side. And let’s say that the “active” window is Safari. There have been a number of occasions where I’ve moved the mouse to the menu bar to alter something on Pages, only to realize that the menu bar was set for Safari. Then I’d have to move the mouse back to Pages, click in the Pages window in order to make the menu bar apply to Pages, then go back to the menu bar.

Obviously, this NEVER happens with Windows because the menu bar is RIGHT THERE at the top of every window.

Anyone who gets confused by that setup is mentally disabled. To say that having a menu at the top of each window is confusing is like saying that having a steering wheel in each car is confusing.

*[quote] Numerous times in Windows, you'll find half a dozen menubars strewn all over the place with windows hiding other windows, and half the time you go and point at the top of a window, and expecting to make a change to one program, when in fact you are making a change to another program. [/quote]*

A half-dozen menubars “strewn all over the place”? Please, spare us the dramatic exaggerations! You and I both know that such a description is grossly inaccurate.

One menu bar at the top of every window is not “menubars strewn all over the place”. The way menus are set up in Windows allows you to focus your attention and perform all of your necessary tasks within the range of that single window. I use a 24” monitor. With Macintosh computers, when I have Pages opened up in the right half of my monitor, I have to look 12” to the left to find the menu for it. THAT is a pain in the you-know-what.

....With Windows, I can put the window anywhere and know that I don’t have to look anywhere but ontop of that window to find the menu that will affect that window. It’s idiot-proof, it’s easy, it’s intuitive.

[*quote] By limiting changes to the active program by putting the menubar as one menubar for whichever application is active, Apple is actually reducing the potential for mistakes, or windows hiding each other. [/quote]*

Again, Apple’s set up produces precisely the opposite effect. Microsoft’s set-up minimizes the chance for confusion because each window has its own menu....which happens to be located at the top of that particular window. How you can say that one single communal menu is less confusing than an individual menu atop each individual window......either you’re lying, or you’ve never used Mac....or PC.

And for users who want more access to the windows, they can always use Exposé to navigate the windows, or the Dock to pick the application and choose a window out of the application.

Message was edited by: OrcaMDDDS

Aug 6, 2010 1:19 AM in response to red_menace

red_menace wrote:
The single menu is not a shortcoming. It is merely a human interface design decision based on Fitts's law.

Thanks for that. I've just read the reference and I can see the point about it being easier to move the mouse to the edge of a screen because you don't have to be accurate. For the first time in this thread someone has actually explained an actual concrete reason why the UI design might be better rather than blind allegiance to the Apple way. However, I still agree with OrcaDDDS that it is a real pain particularly when you have excess screen real estate. I have my MBP sitting next to a 27" iMac as my second monitor on my desk, and it can take a lot of effort to get both the mouse pointer and my eye focus from one side of the desk to the other to select a menu option.

baltwo

Level 9

62,386 points

Aug 5, 2010 8:22 AM in response to a brody

It's all here: Apple Human Interface Guidelines.

Aug 5, 2010 10:17 AM in response to baltwo

baltwo wrote:
It's all here: Apple Human Interface Guidelines.

I don't doubt you, but just cos Apple wrote it doesn't necessarily mean it's the only/best way of doing it.

This thread has been closed by the system or the community team. You may vote for any posts you find helpful, or search the Community for additional answers.

Why is there no “cancel” button anywhere in OS X?