Hi all, why Finder is not showing files starting with ._ (dot underscore) even if I ask to show hidden files? This kind of files are created by Bbedit and can be seen only via line command "ls -lart".
It's a bug or just design?
Running Monterey on M1, but it happens with older OSX too.
Thanks
MacBook Air 13″, macOS 12.3
I just opened a text file in BBedit v14.1 and saved it to my Desktop and again to a mounted FAT32 drive. In neither case did it create a dot-underbar hidden file.
The Finder can toggle display ordinary or hidden files with shift+command+. but cannot show dot-underbar files because they are representations of extended attributes expected to be assigned to files when copied to APFS or HFS+ formatted drives. You can only see these dot-underbar files from the Terminal command line.
Apple provides a tool (dot_clean) that will remove these dot-underbar files on external exFAT/FAT32 drives.
man dot_clean
dot_clean -m /Volumes/STUFF
I just opened a text file in BBedit v14.1 and saved it to my Desktop and again to a mounted FAT32 drive. In neither case did it create a dot-underbar hidden file.
The Finder can toggle display ordinary or hidden files with shift+command+. but cannot show dot-underbar files because they are representations of extended attributes expected to be assigned to files when copied to APFS or HFS+ formatted drives. You can only see these dot-underbar files from the Terminal command line.
Apple provides a tool (dot_clean) that will remove these dot-underbar files on external exFAT/FAT32 drives.
man dot_clean
dot_clean -m /Volumes/STUFF
It's because you're writing to a FAT32 drive, which does not support Apple's dual file fork system (which Apple themselves deprecated back in Snow Leopard).
What you're seeing are Apple Double entries. When an app tries to write resource fork data to a drive that doesn't support it - such as FAT32 - it writes that resource data as a ._xxx file. So, you end up with things like:
cat.jpg
._cat.jpg
meals.doc
._meals.doc
When you copy the visible data fork data back to a Mac formatted drive, the matching resource ._ file is also copied back and written as a normal Mac file.
That all said, I tested the latest version of BBEdit with both an ExFAT and MS-DOS (FAT32) drive. In neither case did it write a ._ Apple Double file. Which may mean you're using a pretty old version of BBEdit and should update it.
I didn't know you could not see them in Finder, but you can view them in the Terminal.
They are how the metadata is transferred with the file when you put them on a file system that doesn't support metadata.
If the point of seeing them is to remove them, you can use the dot_clean utility in Terminal.
Barney-15E wrote:
If the point of seeing them is to remove them, you can use the dot_clean utility in Terminal.
FWIW, "rm <filename>" also works.
peterwhites wrote:
why Finder is not showing files starting with ._ (dot underscore) even if I ask to show hidden files?
This is a user-to-user support forum. We can answer "how" questions, but not "why" questions. We can speculate about answers to "why" questions, but that's all they can ever be - speculation. Therefore, with full knowledge of the limits of our knowledge, you can't challenge these speculations - because we can't prove them to be correct in the first place.
Certain dot files serve as extensions of the file system. They encode important metadata that may have been present in certain hidden structures in one filesystem, but are not supported in a different filesystem. Your experience using FAT32 is a good example of this. You can also see it when unzipping Mac ZIP archives using a command-line unzipping tool that doesn't know about the file system it is running under.
There is an obsession among Mac users to "clean up" their hard drives. They will spend hours, and hard-earned cash, searching for and deleting these files, saving kilobytes of data. Then, after a long day cleaning files, they will reward themselves with a little web surfing. The first website they go to will include a Javascript file for used for tracking their Amazon purchases and web search history and that one file will completely wipe out all of their clean up efforts in 13.6 milliseconds.
P. Phillips wrote:
A - Do not see a Normal method to get Finder to how Hidden Files
Pressing command shift . shows hidden files.
Sorry I forgot to say that this kind of files are created ONLY when you open a file in a FAT32 directory (normally in a external device). This kind of files is generated automatically
Q - " Hi all, why Finder is not showing files starting with ._ (dot underscore) even if I ask to show hidden files? "
A - Do not see a Normal method to get Finder to how Hidden Files They are hidden for a good reason. To further complicate matters the Operating System is now housed in a Sealed and Read Only Volume which can not be opened by the User or Third Party Software
refer below
Sorry but there is a standard method to show hidden files (shift+command+dot). I'm not talking about operating system files but simply a text file in a standard directory. If you use command line you can see it but not using finder standard feature. With standard command you can see all . (dot) files but to the ._ files.
just to know if I get right: you are saying that Finder will not show ._ file in any case? It's not a matter of lifer or death, just to know.
Now I know and I will use command line but let me say that is really weird that Apple did not take care of this, isn't it?
TY ;-)
but let me say that is really weird that Apple did not take care of this, isn't it?
It doesn't show .DS_Store files, either. I'm not sure why you think it is weird that Apple hides stuff from the user. They hide the user's Library for some unknown reason.
Maybe you didn't understand my question. If I want I can see hidden files at all but not ._ files. This is the weird thing.
To see hidden files there is a standard command (shift+command+dot). Let me know if you want a proof
I'm not asking "why" but it's only a thought. The odd thing is that we can see all hidden files but not this one. Is't not a cleaning purpose nor an obsession.
In the specific I had big problem preparing a SD card for a device that was not running anymore after the update because of this hidden file.
I understand that I will not receive any helpful answer about this topic. I can survive anyway even if this kind of stuff will not be shown by finder.
that's it
peterwhites wrote:
It's a bug or just design?
I don't know the answer to your question but you can name any file starting with ._ and get the same result.
TY ; -)
Finder is not showing ._ hidden files
