2017 MacBook Pro Unstable on Mojave, Catalina, Big Sur, Monterey..rtf

I don't know even where to begin having been an Apple customer for 22 years. 


I have never seen anything like this and neither have the technicians at Apple Store Watford and multiple Level 2 support technicians in Cork (at least 15 different people over an incredibly stressful 8 week period).


I have erased and clean installed using new user accounts for all the OS’s in my subject heading above, 6 or is it 7 times? I started by going straight up to Monterey and giving up and going back to Big Sur and then finally back to Mojave (thanks to Watford Apple stores help today) but nothing stops the instability… Examples further below.


Background: I was running at v. high CPU’s because I thought it was trading s/ware I had started using (ProRealTIme s/ware) and didn’t realise the high running fans were actually not due to PRT’s s/ware and the large number of Safari and Chrome trading windows (35) being open (typically sites using live java price feeds).


The Level 2 support tried to address the instability on Mojave (which I was on until Feb 2022) before we realised the CPU was spiking up to 500% for anywhere from a minute too much longer. The fans were checked and found to be clogged and dirty. After they were cleaned Watford accidentally forgot to wipe their master user account and I had endless permission issues accessing two external Seagate drives. Three L2 techs couldn’t fix it so it was erased and upgraded from Mojave to Monterey but instability continued.


Instability Examples:


Playing music videos on YT, the sound preferences would be on headphones (to a Kenwood amp/spks), but would change and start outputting through the spks of my TV monitor plugged in to my Mac?


Open Mail and select an email but the email doesn’t read from left to right but top to bottom in a tiny 1cm column?


Create 30 + iCloud mail folders, spend two days manually importing in 10’s of 000’s of emails with L2 help and in which I saw them correctly populate the folders (accountant/banking/trading etc) in the iCloud mail. On the third day I opened mail to find half of the folders were empty and that 47,600 emails had all been sent to a recovered folder at the bottom of Apple mail app?


Log into Safari iCloud . com, go to mail (having been on Monterey and downgraded to Mojave), select an email but the email will not load. None will. Go straight to Chrome iCloud . com and they load? 


Various permission issues with things like Preview where I have edited an image and when I try and edit it again eg a few days later and it tells me I don’t have permission and to duplicate? This despite Terminal: diskutil resetUserPermission / ‘id -u’


Set an image of Hawaii on Desktop 1 (I have 5) and then find it’s gone and its the generic Apple image, multiple times?


I mean the list goes on, slow load for Activity Monitor so it’s all white for second or two before it loads. Prior to overheating AM opened and showed all activities immediately on launch. 


The technician at Watford tried erasing in APFS, then erasing in Mac Extended Journal and then back to APFS before clean installing today but Mojave was unstable as soon as I got home: The sound preference changed (which it’d had never done before in the last 8 weeks of instability), Issues like: Log into Safari iCloud . com and can’t access email letter content. 


The technician also wondered if the iCloud a/c is also causing issues, particularly after the 47,600 “recovered” email issue?


I am at a complete loss and of course being self employed this has greatly impacted my ability to work.


If any experienced Apple users have any ideas I am all ears because frankly the only thing I can think of doing is getting anew computer and starting all over again with a new suer and iCloud account.



Thanks very much in advance for any help or guidance.





Posted on Apr 6, 2022 4:23 PM

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Posted on Apr 7, 2022 2:29 PM

"....Create 30 + iCloud mail folders, spend two days manually importing in 10’s of 000’s of emails with L2 help and in which I saw them correctly populate the folders (accountant/banking/trading etc) in the iCloud mail. On the third day I opened mail to find half of the folders were empty and that 47,600 emails had all been sent to a recovered folder at the bottom of Apple mail app?...."


I do not understand why any if that was necessary .

Adding your iCloud account in the Mail accounts should have been the only single action needed. The folders and mails would have self-populated.

Why did you need to create folders and manually migrate mails?


Having had a MBP that overheated like yours I had hardware failure due to melted solder joints. Get a new M1 Mac and claim your VAT and income tax allowances is my advice.

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Apr 7, 2022 2:29 PM in response to Bardonicloud

"....Create 30 + iCloud mail folders, spend two days manually importing in 10’s of 000’s of emails with L2 help and in which I saw them correctly populate the folders (accountant/banking/trading etc) in the iCloud mail. On the third day I opened mail to find half of the folders were empty and that 47,600 emails had all been sent to a recovered folder at the bottom of Apple mail app?...."


I do not understand why any if that was necessary .

Adding your iCloud account in the Mail accounts should have been the only single action needed. The folders and mails would have self-populated.

Why did you need to create folders and manually migrate mails?


Having had a MBP that overheated like yours I had hardware failure due to melted solder joints. Get a new M1 Mac and claim your VAT and income tax allowances is my advice.

Apr 6, 2022 8:23 PM in response to Bardonicloud

Along the lines of tjk's suggestion -- Apple Authorized repair Centers have access to much more comprehensive hardware test tools and diagnostics than ordinary users have access to. Did they thoroughly test and check out the hardware?


Hardware seems implicated because the problems seem to permeate all functions and even different MacOS's. It could be something as simple as bad RAM. The computer is 5 years old, not exactly ancient, but all hardware eventually wears out, some earlier than others. My employer requires that we "replenish" (replace computer with a new one) every three years. That said, I am still using a personally owned 2010 MacBook Air that Apple considers "obsolete."


The other question: have you ever tested computer operation after one of those complete erase/clean installs BEFORE migrating any previous user accounts and before installing ANYTHING? To figure out if something in your account or that you have installed system wide might be causing this?

Apr 7, 2022 5:47 AM in response to steve626

Yes it passed two diagnostics with the Genius Bar.


I have erased Mojave from yesterdays visit and gone up to Monterey again but first erasing the HD as an Mac Extended Journal and then erasing again as APFS. So far without logging into iCloud things actually seem to be stable, well at least Van Halen is still coming out of the Kenwood amp and spks and not switching to my LG TV monitor spks...


It's too early to tell yet but I will post any further developments.


Cheers tjk and Steve626

Apr 7, 2022 1:21 AM in response to tjk

This is what I suspected but as the fans got slowly clogged over months and months it wasn't immediately obvious that the fans were starting to run faster and faster and I was running heavy number crunching trading s/ware. However the Watford Apple Store diagnostic a few weeks ago and yesterday gave my Mac a clean bill of health so I am not sure what to do?

Apr 7, 2022 12:32 PM in response to tjk

I am not sure what to think anymore. Monterey has only crashed once today, just now, with minimal activity (few safari tabs, mail, text edit and preview open).


I am going to put Monterey on an external drive and during OS set up I will sign into iCloud this time and see if it produces the same instability issues I've described in my original post.


Apple have told me now I'm on Monterey that they will escalate the matter to their engineers.

Apr 8, 2022 12:34 AM in response to Bardonicloud

UPDATE after 24 hours on Monterey (for the 3rd or 4th time):


One crash/freeze with little CPU demand. (Only open apps at the time were: Sys Pref/Txt Edit/Preview/ Safari with 5 windows about 15 tabs).


After the restart Safari opened the previous session. I quit Safari but on reopening minutes later Safari open only one home page. I had to use Reopen all windows.


Constant rearranging of Spaces (I have 5 desks).

The only tick box I have ticked in Mission Control is: Displays have separate Spaces.

Today on walking from sleep (and this was happening a lot yesterday when using the Mac.

Desk 2 now in Space 4

Desk 3 now in Space 2

Desk 4 now in Space 3.

Desks 1 & 5 remained in the same position. It makes work difficult.


As noted in my reply to LD150, In a poll I now see that this is an issue for about 25% of respondents on 9 to 5 Mac's website?:

I have never had this issue on the previous OS (Mojave).



Is this behaviour with Spaces fixable, assuming my MBP isn't heat damaged and despite two successful diagnostics weeks apart at the Genius Bar?


Would one open YouTube window with a paused album I was playing cause 100% CPU?


Thanks,


[Link Edited by Moderator]



Apr 8, 2022 12:35 AM in response to LD150

Apologies LD150, I should have clarified that my mail folders had previously been "On my Mac" but I decided to build them and put them in the cloud.


Overheating: You may well be right, I'm suspecting that the successful diagnostics (two tests weeks apart) might not be right. How else can anyone else explain this kind of instability? But, then having said this, I now see that this is an issue for 25% of respondents on here?: I have never had this issue on the previous OS (Mojave).


[Link Edited by Moderator]


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2017 MacBook Pro Unstable on Mojave, Catalina, Big Sur, Monterey..rtf

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