Can you help me sort out this APFS mess I made?

Question

Level 1

1 points

Can you help me sort out this APFS mess I made?

I'm using an external HD as Time Machine for three laptops & an iMac. It's split into APFS containers, but now one of the Volumes is running out of space. I was under the impression APFS would automatically resize, but that's apparently not the case -- or I created the containers poorly to begin with.

I found some answers regarding resizing containers, but for some reason, it's not working.

There are supposed to be a regular volume for moving files around (TwennyToo), and four Time Machine partitions: MuckBook Pro, iMac, KottiServer, and MuckBook Air.

I wanted to increase space for that last one, but couldn't, so I attempted to delete the volume -- but now I have an empty container.

What would be the ideal setup for this, and what's the best way for me to get there without having to recreate all those Time Machine backups? Thank you!

Here's the diskutil apfs list

+-- Container disk10 28831E18-FD4A-4D1B-969B-FA2DBCBED398 | ===================================================== | APFS Container Reference: disk10 | Size (Capacity Ceiling):

479661281280 B (479.7 GB) | Capacity In Use By Volumes:

58988503040 B (59.0 GB) (12.3% used) | Capacity Not Allocated:

420672778240 B (420.7 GB) (87.7% free) | | | +-< Physical Store disk9s3 C78982B6-5D61-40F2-9C30-5DC48340AC02 | |

----------------------------------------------------------- | | APFS Physical Store Disk: disk9s3 | | Size:

479661281280 B (479.7 GB) | | | +-> Volume disk10s1 4FA97AE5-E0A0-43FA-9304-EDFF34D2A46F |

---------------------------------------------------- | APFS Volume Disk (Role): disk10s1 (No specific role) | Name:

TwennyToo (Case-sensitive) | Mount Point:

/Volumes/TwennyToo | Capacity Consumed: 58829541376 B (58.8 GB) | Sealed: No | FileVault:

No | +-- Container disk12 74F5ADEB-4505-45BA-A46B-119EEEB39D0E | ===================================================== | APFS Container Reference: disk12 | Size (Capacity Ceiling):

1003455242240 B (1.0 TB) | Capacity In Use By Volumes:

843738812416 B (843.7 GB) (84.1% used) | Capacity Not Allocated:

159716429824 B (159.7 GB) (15.9% free) | | | +-< Physical Store disk9s4 27F4B766-A7F7-45F3-BC85-21220D019939 | |

----------------------------------------------------------- | | APFS Physical Store Disk: disk9s4 | | Size:

1003455242240 B (1.0 TB) | | | +-> Volume disk12s2 06844FE7-0626-4F91-964D-8F1EBB12F412 |

---------------------------------------------------- | APFS Volume Disk (Role): disk12s2 (Backup) | Name:

iMac Backup (Case-sensitive) | Mount Point:

/Volumes/iMac Backup | Capacity Consumed: 843531165696 B (843.5 GB) | Sealed: No | FileVault:

No | +-- Container disk13 F7E348D8-BF27-43BA-A07C-D234C5D9ADB4 | ===================================================== | APFS Container Reference: disk13 | Size (Capacity Ceiling):

150348423168 B (150.3 GB) | Capacity In Use By Volumes:

60945494016 B (60.9 GB) (40.5% used) | Capacity Not Allocated:

89402929152 B (89.4 GB) (59.5% free) | | | +-< Physical Store disk9s6 BBD6A34E-1DC7-4C26-AE26-AA254DA7EF29 | |

----------------------------------------------------------- | | APFS Physical Store Disk: disk9s6 | | Size:

150348423168 B (150.3 GB) | | | +-> Volume disk13s2 21215C46-AF82-4D48-89B5-052AD8618930 |

---------------------------------------------------- | APFS Volume Disk (Role): disk13s2 (Backup) | Name:

MuckBook Pro Backup (Case-sensitive) | Mount Point:

/Volumes/MuckBook Pro Backup | Capacity Consumed:

60817031168 B (60.8 GB) | Sealed: No |

FileVault: No | +-- Container disk14 8C1323C1-8071-4CCA-9E2D-593F228367B7 | ===================================================== | APFS Container Reference: disk14 | Size (Capacity Ceiling):

150442295296 B (150.4 GB) | Capacity In Use By Volumes:

139521204224 B (139.5 GB) (92.7% used) | Capacity Not Allocated:

10921091072 B (10.9 GB) (7.3% free) | | | +-< Physical Store disk9s5 B450E11D-5B6B-4127-A212-1F6827ACC6DE | |

----------------------------------------------------------- | | APFS Physical Store Disk: disk9s5 | | Size:

150442295296 B (150.4 GB) | | | +-> Volume disk14s2 96DAF5C9-9CDC-4612-BC01-1657BFC8C40D |

---------------------------------------------------- | APFS Volume Disk (Role): disk14s2 (Backup) | Name:

KottiServer Backup (Case-sensitive) | Mount Point:

/Volumes/KottiServer Backup | Capacity Consumed:

139392618496 B (139.4 GB) | Sealed: No |

FileVault: No | +-- Container disk15 16B2C71B-419E-40E7-A52A-502E791EF6BE ===================================================== APFS Container Reference: disk15 Size (Capacity Ceiling): 216281935872 B (216.3 GB) Capacity In Use By Volumes: 134569984 B (134.6 MB) (0.1% used) Capacity Not Allocated: 216147365888 B (216.1 GB) (99.9% free) | +-< Physical Store disk9s2 344DF181-F5CF-4A99-8614-18394F61371F | ----------------------------------------------------------- | APFS Physical Store Disk: disk9s2 | Size: 216281935872 B (216.3 GB) | +-> No Volumes

Posted on May 19, 2022 3:20 AM

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Answer 1

muckster Author

Level 1

1 points

May 19, 2022 6:40 AM in response to PRP_53

Can we accept as a given that I want to keep Time Machine files for four computers on one drive? That’s my goal. It’s possible, right, even if you think I shouldn’t?

So the question was, what’s the best way to organize that into containers/volumes, and how can I get from the mess I have at the moment into one system?

Should they all be in one container but several volumes so size adjusts automatically? Can I combine these containers and volumes into one container with four volumes, or do I have to reformat and start over?

thanks.

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Answer 2

HWTech

Level 9

60,578 points

May 19, 2022 11:38 AM in response to muckster

You need to move everything off the drive and erase it with a single Container (perhaps with multiple APFS volumes). You cannot do it any other way since you probably don't have room on the drive to do it any other way (assuming you could even merge the Containers together after moving the data from the Container. Besides modifying partitions (or Containers) is always risky. Multiple APFS volumes within a single Container share the resources of the Container.

In addition you are dealing with TM backups. While I don't use TM, it is my understanding that TM backups don't work (or work well/reliably) when trying to modify them even by cloning. From what I've read on these forums it seems you never want to modify a TM backup drive unless you are going to erase it and start over.

As for having multiple TM backups on several APFS volumes, the risk you run into with this option is when the volume (Container) runs out of space, then the TM backup will start deleting older items to make more room. This could severely limit some of your TM backups without you being aware of it since you have four different TM backups competing for space. With a smaller the storage pool for each TM backup because they are sharing space you may limit (perhaps severely) how far back in time you can recover a particular edit of a document. This was just my quick thoughts, there may be even more things of concern which are not even mentioned here.

You want backups to be safe, stable, and reliable for the moment when the unthinkable happens and you need to recover something important. You don't want to do anything which may jeopardize the backup, otherwise why even bother backing up in the first place? Now if this was a second or third backup, then that is a different matter entirely, but if this is the only/primary backup, then you are taking risks with your backups. How important is this data to you? If you lose all the data on one of the computers and find out the backup is damaged, are you Ok with the loss of the data? Of course it is your data and system so you may do as you wish.

FYI, you never want an APFS volume to ever become completely full, otherwise you may not be able to write to it or even delete anything due to how the APFS file system works. Even to delete a file requires an APFS volume to have sufficient free space in order to write the changes to the drive before the data is removed. If there is no free space, then no data can be deleted. I have no idea what type of safeguards (if any) TM may include for such a scenario, but macOS does not (or at least did not) have any such safeguards in place which required erasing the drive and restoring from a backup which is not what you want for a TM backup drive.

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Answer 3

PRP_53

Level 10

91,783 points

May 19, 2022 4:36 AM in response to muckster

As per very good previous advise offered.

Using one drive, no matter how, even if APFS format and sub Containers for 4 different TM Backup for 4 Computer is a risky business at Best.

That said - ALL your eggs in 1 basket - Drives do fail and now what happens ?

Scrambled Eggs and all 4 computers are without any TM Backup

Do you have a Rescue Plan In-Place. This comprises having 3 Backups using 2 methods and 1 Off Site incase of Theft, Loss or Natural Disasters. A Time Machine Backup is very useful and can be used to Revert to Previous Working macOS.

For addition purposes - two Tested Clones each to separate external drives. This is insurance incase the upgrades goes sideways. At least one Tested Clone and / or Time Machine Backup should be Off - Site

Does my CCC backup have to be bootable for me to restore data from it?

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Answer 4

muckster Author

Level 1

1 points

May 19, 2022 4:18 AM in response to muckster

I think I'm beginning to see the problem -- I made a different container for each volume. Is there a way to move all the volumes together under one container? How can I sort this out without deleting everything?

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Answer 5

ku4hx

Level 7

23,592 points

May 19, 2022 3:57 AM in response to muckster

For TM backups ... dedicate the full drive to TM only, NO partitions, and format it as APFS. Actually in the latest OS it's APFS (Case-sensitive).

Get a drive that's 2-3x the internal drive's size, format it, startup TM to run automatically and let it run.

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Answer 6

muckster Author

Level 1

1 points

May 19, 2022 5:18 AM in response to PRP_53

Yes, thank you — but that wasn't my question. My question was: how do I best arrange this if I want to have all backups on one hard drive.

If this one drive fails, it won't matter because the computers are all ok.

If one of the computers fails, I'll still have the drive.

I have various other backup solutions in place.

I appreciate the advice but it's not an answer to my question. Thanks.

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Answer 7

PRP_53

Level 10

91,783 points

May 19, 2022 6:24 AM in response to muckster

There has been sufficient advise / suggestions offered for the User to make an informed and educated choice what the next course of action is required.

The suggestions have been put forth on a volunteer basis, in good faith and in the best interests of the computer.

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