macOS Ventura doesn't include a complete app uninstaller because Apple wants files to accumulate in your mac?

The problem is not all developers pay attention to fine detail when it comes to properly installing and uninstalling their software. This is a cross-platform problem on ALL operating systems. Developers spend a great deal of time on the software itself but they are not SysAdmins and they don't understand how things work in the operating system in the same way.

Windows suffers the same problems. On Windows there is Revo Uninstaller. On macOS there are several similar utilities to remove left over junk. But again, it's ultimately up to the developers. Ventura added an SMAppService API to handle helper executables within an App bundle so they can be executed when trashing the App. I've seen this prior to Ventura but it was only for removing a SystemExtension. What's new is all the extra potential to remove other fluff. Such an executable helper could also clean out configuration files and settings in Library folders.

"In macOS 13 and later, use SMAppService to register and control LoginItems, LaunchAgents, and LaunchDaemons as helper executables for your app. "

That means the developers can definitely uninstall LoginItems, LaunchAgents, and LaunchDaemons when the App is trashed. If they use the new API system call SMAppService. This was announced at WWDC2022. Apple is listening and has added this capability now it's up to the developers to actually use it in their Apps.

Ultimately, it's always up to the software developer to construct an installation and removal process that is reliable and clean. Sadly too many are not doing a good job of it. There are exceptions, but they are few and far between.

I would love to see Apple publish some best practices white papers for developers that are easy to find. Maybe include references to them in Xcode. Specific topics to include how to install your software and ensure it can be fully uninstalled. With some detailed examples and even a sample project and tutorial.

The topic is vast and complex and will vary quite a bit but developers need to learn how to install and uninstall their software properly. Commercial software vendors need to start taking it seriously. Even Microsoft had to write Fix-It packages that run scripts to uninstall Office on Windows among other things. For macOS, Microsoft released an Office-Reset tool which is just some packages to reset Office to defaults and to remove Office Apps. Looking at these packages in Suspicious Package I can see it's really just scripts to clean up things just like a typical Fix-It package.

Suspicious Package is a great tool to examine the contents of a macOS installation package. Primarily you would need to know what to look for in regards to finding a malicious payload. But it definitely documents what the package is doing and where everything is going so you can use it to help you manually clean up residue left over after removing the app. Another tool called, Apparency will examine an App bundle.

So again, it's a complex problem that plagues the entire computing industry and has not been fully solved for any operating system.

It's not Apple's responsibility to provide uninstaller for 3rd party apps. It's the developers of those apps to do so. You've found the best solution to that problem, AppCleaner. It works very well but there's a warning you should know about:

WARNING: If you use AppCleaner on an app that you have other apps from the same developer, like Adobe, you must be extremely careful checking all checkboxes and deleting.  Some for those files may support other apps from the same developer and deleting them can mess them up.  Adobe apps is a primary example. I know from experience.  For singular apps from a developer it's safe.

However, CMM is considered akin to malware by most of the experienced contributors to these forums. There are hundreds of topics here in which CMM was the contributing factor to the problems that the authors were experiencing.

However, I've used AppCleaner extensively and find it to be safe and reliable. However, do read and consider the warning below:

WARNING: If you use AppCleaner on an app that you have other apps from the same developer, like Adobe, you must be extremely careful in checking all checkboxes and deleting.  Some for those files may support other apps from the same developer and deleting them can mess them up.  Adobe apps is a primary example. I know from experience.😢  For singular apps from a developer it's safe.

AlWeir wrote:

I use Find Any File when deleting apps. I search first for the developer's name and then the app's name. Be real careful if you have two apps with similar names.

That's why the App's uninstaller is better.

These files are tiny and are not doing anything whence tgr application is removed. The way I see it, if an application comes with an installer it should also provide an uninstaller. If you just copy it to the Applications folder then you can just trash it. The files left behind are negligible in size, are hidden and not doing anything. We are talking usually a few KB.

If the user really whats to see what still lurking as Left-Overs from year ago.

Or Worse, Migrated from a Previous Computer using an Older version of macOS

Download the Application Etrecheck directly from the Developer.

This is a Diagnostic Tool that makes no changes to the computer.

It makes a coherent and readable inventory of both the Hardware and Software used on the computer 

The application is free or paid from added features. 

The Report will Not Reveal Any Personal Information. 

Post back the Full Report - copy and paste - >>>> using the Additional Text Icon ( 3rd Icon to last ) <<<<

FWIW I occasionally do a spring cleaning after a major macOS upgrade by doing Carbon Copy Cloner backup(s) to external disks, (take a deep breath and) nuke the internal device, do a clean reinstall from a bootable USB flash drive, manually copy/import user files (including ~/Library/Mail etc) and selected app preferences, re-install relevant current apps.

Yes, that takes 1-2 hours but it gets rid of the clutter you are concerned about.

That said, most people just install a new macOS upgrade on top of the very old ones with no problems.

I have never really used the Migration Assistant but a while ago my daughter used it to migrate Intel MacBook Pro 2017 to MacBook Air 2023 and (after disabling Firewall) it was a smooth ride. But I guess some unimportant tiny old user files were also migrated.

I use Find Any File when deleting apps. I search first for the developer's name and then the app's name. Be real careful if you have two apps with similar names.

If an app requires an installer or executes a “first run” routine that asks for an admin password, it should provide an uninstaller (or complete uninstall instructions). If it does not, the solution is trivial, don’t install the app. I don’t care how big they are. If they install something that modifies the system and don’t provide an uninstaller or directions, their product is shoddy.

The only files that have any effect on your Mac would be installed with admin authorization. They may continue to run even after moving the app to the Trash and require an uninstaller to remove them.

Other Apps (not from App Store) may use Application Support to store configuration files, game saves, or other user data. For some apps, that can be very large. If you no longer wish to ever use that data again, you can remove it. I think the storage management interface may show that storage as being used by the app, but I’m not sure. Again, that is all your data, dispose of it or not like any other data you create.

Thanks for you reply. You right than I should not install an app without an unistaller but that's not always given. Storage management in settings sure doesn't know better files locations and the storage they occupy than some mac cleaning apps.

That's not what I said, or meant to say. It shows how much storage an app uses. It will also tell you what will be recovered if you delete the app. Steam, for example, uses 1.4GB of storage. Deleting the app will only recover 7MB of storage. That means it stores almost 1.4GB of data somewhere. Like almost every app, that is in Application Support in a folder named for the app, Steam. They also have a smaller one named for the company, Valve Corporation.

It does know better how much storage is used by the apps. It just doesn't provide the location, but they are well-known locations. It's not difficult.

I think every app should be required to tell the user exactly what it installs and where. Apple has basically done that with he App Store; however, they still allow you to install almost anything you want. You take the responsibility of knowing how to use your tools.

Never use an "app zapper" or "clean up" app to uninstall apps on a modern Mac. These tools cannot uninstall 3rd party system extensions. But if you run them, then it becomes impossible to uninstall those system extensions and they will then run out of control. The only ways to fix it will then be to erase your hard drive or try a procedure so dangerous that I'm not even allowed to mention it in the forums.

I understand that space is an issue for some people like you. Of course it's important because, as you say, you do not have sufficient space to download the update to Ventura. Also, if your HD gets too full the computer can lock up and stop functioning. A very bad situation. I suggest that you consider the following. Install an external disk. Then copy files like photos, etc. onto it so they can be deleted from your HD to clear up needed space. These days there are many fine external disks available at reasonable costs. They can be easily installed using a USB cable provided by the vendor. Problem solved.