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TextEdit docs opened in MacOS 12.6 Monterey are garbled

All TextEdit documents created in earlier MacOS's (High Sierra and earlier) open as badly garbled documents in my newly-installed Monterey OS's version of TextEdit. None of the obvious Options in the Open menu works, nor does Reset Prefs. I can still open those docs just fine in the High Sierra and El Capitan versions of TextEdit on older computers.

MacBook Pro 15″, macOS 12.6

Posted on Apr 13, 2023 4:39 PM

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Apr 17, 2023 8:08 AM in response to jfgaylord

jfgaylord wrote:

If I type "Command-B" select the text and use the command, it produces the symbols shown in the screen shot. It also disables any further text entry (except for return/enter which only moves the cursor). It does not bring up the formatting menu. If I copy that weird text and enter it here, it appears normally (but not boldface).

You are going to have to be more specific on these things.


Here is what happens when I try to follow your steps to reproduce:

1) I don't know where to start. From your screenshot, it looks like you've opened a new TextEdit document. So I did that.

2) I type command-b. It does nothing except turn on boldface for any subsequent text I may type. I can tell this by the change in the toolbar for the boldface text indicator.

3) I can't select any text because I haven't typed any. Maybe I should type something then?

4) Use the command. What command? Command-B? That just turns off boldface. Should I type some specific text, select it, and then type command-b? Is there some specific text that causes this? If so, what is it?


Maybe you have some shortcut defined for command-b?


I can't reproduce anything like what you are describing. Unless you have some other way to reproduce, the only answer is that these documents are simply corrupt. If this happens on a new document, then something about your configuration is corrupt. Erase the hard drive and reinstall the operating system. What ever you did to setup the computer the first time - don't do that.


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Apr 17, 2023 8:11 AM in response to jfgaylord

jfgaylord wrote:

This is a font issue, however all of my past documents created on previous MacOS's were done with Helvetica, so I'll have to change the font in each document. I'll try that and report back.

Just delete your corrupt Helvetica font instead. That may fix all of the documents. I strongly suggest you verify that after deleting the corrupt font.


Note - this is a custom font that you have installed at some point. I'm not saying you should try to delete the system version of Helvetica. Don't try that, you can't do it. You need to find your custom version of Helvetica and delete that one. It's the one that isn't in a "/System/" folder.

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Apr 17, 2023 8:18 AM in response to jfgaylord

I am glad that you have a workaround, but still the concern remains that such a common font as Helvetica would cause such unusual errors on your system.


Since Helvetica is distributed with macOS, in a read-only and sealed volume that cannot be modified by the user, it is unlikely that the font distributed with macOS is corrupted.


Is it possible that you have somewhere installed a copy of Helvetica that is corrupted?

If you search for Helvetica in Font Book, and then control-click and choose Reveal in Finder, where does it take you? It should be in /System/Library/Fonts

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Apr 17, 2023 8:18 AM in response to etresoft

You didn't read carefully. Yes, I opened a new document. I typed < Command-B > then selected the text and used the (bold) command-B keystrokes. That produced the weird type. I later discovered it was the Helvetica font that got corrupted because Times works fine. I will try other fonts as well and I'll let you know if I encounter the same defect.


Thanks everyone for your help. Now you know there's a bug in Monterey TextEdit.

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Apr 17, 2023 8:23 AM in response to jfgaylord

jfgaylord wrote:

You didn't read carefully. Yes, I opened a new document. I typed < Command-B > then selected the text and used the (bold) command-B keystrokes. That produced the weird type. I later discovered it was the Helvetica font that got corrupted because Times works fine. I will try other fonts as well and I'll let you know if I encounter the same defect.

Thanks everyone for your help. Now you know there's a bug in Monterey TextEdit.


NO, you don't know that.


As etresoft and I both wrote, you have a version of Helvetica installed on your system, and that is corrupted.

Get rid of that, and just use the system provided version of Helvetica, and all will be well.

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Apr 17, 2023 8:25 AM in response to Luis Sequeira1

This is a new clean install of Monterey MacOS and I haven't installed any other fonts yet, although I installed other fonts on previous MacOS's where I created those TextEdit docs, but I hadn't selected any of those installed fonts and merely had used the default Helvetica font. So clearly this is a bug.

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Apr 17, 2023 8:33 AM in response to Luis Sequeira1

That is incorrect. No I don't have any other version of Helvetica installed – only what came with the Monterey MacOS. If that is corrupted, then it looks like I'll have to reinstall the OS.


Your system keeps reporting: "You’ve exceeded the posting limits. Please try again in a few minutes." Very annoying and prevents proper sequential dialog!

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Apr 17, 2023 8:54 AM in response to jfgaylord

This is inside you user Library folder, i.e., in

/Users/admin/Library/Fonts


The system one is in a different place, namely


/System/Library/Fonts



You did not specifically install it, but you migrated this folder, containing a great many fonts, from your previous system.

You can try just moving this copy of Helvetica to your desktop, logging out and back in, and then see if the problem persists.


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Apr 17, 2023 10:01 AM in response to jfgaylord

jfgaylord wrote:

That is incorrect. No I don't have any other version of Helvetica installed – only what came with the Monterey MacOS. If that is corrupted, then it looks like I'll have to reinstall the OS.

You have at least 14 different versions of Helvetica installed, along with apparently several hundred additional 3rd party fonts. And many of those are positively ancient.

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Apr 17, 2023 5:08 PM in response to jfgaylord

Not only TextEdit, but also Font Book in Monterey is accessing the wrong Fonts folder on a different partition, although many of those Fonts are grayed out as incompatible with Monterey ("ancient" as you mentioned). I paid good money to license a lot of them, including ones that I use for my business.

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Apr 17, 2023 7:32 PM in response to jfgaylord

It is accessing the “correct” fonts. You have all of those fonts in your home directory. They are inside the “Library” folder, which is hidden by default. When you do one of those “show in Finder” operations, it will show the file in a hidden folder. But if you go looking for it, you won’t find it, because it’s hidden.


Normally, this is a good thing. There are very few files in the Library folder that end users should be accessing. The Fonts folder is one of those rare exceptions.


I’m not sure about the current state of your fonts. They are managed both by the various Fonts folders (plural) and by the font system database. Your configuration is obviously all screwed up. Maybe the best approach is to move all those user Fonts aside, restart, then double-check that they aren’t listed in Font book. I don’t know for sure what you will find at that point.


I don’t recommend having any old operating systems visible. That will really confuse both the current system and possibly the other one. You are in “undefined” territory. Any visible disk is part of the operating system at some level. Modern versions of macOS simply aren’t designed for that.

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Apr 17, 2023 8:32 PM in response to etresoft

Thank you for your expert advice. Yes, I see in Monterey the User Fonts under Option > Go > Library > Fonts which contains the plethora of fonts old and new.


I assumed incorrectly that partitions would maintain separation between OS resources. I wanted to use older applications such as Adobe CS3 Suite that are incompatible with the newer MacOS with best performance when residing on my internal SSD, which is why I added High Sierra onto a different partition.


According to your information, this conflict means I should dump High Sierra and relegate all older applications to an older computer with MacOS El Capitan (speaking of "ancient"). That is disappointing, along with the obsolescence of many of my fonts, but since I have other computers I won't be suffering too much if I leave Monterey exclusively to its own resources.


Originally, after had installed Monterey on the fresh SSD, I found out that I could make a new partition (which I don't think I could have done with a regular HD). Will I be able to erase the added partition from the SSD without affecting the other one containing Monterey and the accompanying modern applications? This would be my first step before dealing with the font issue.


Thanks again for your help.

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Apr 18, 2023 12:38 AM in response to jfgaylord

Before you mess with the containers, follow etresoft’s other advice: move the fonts that are inside your home Library aside.

1) Hold down Option key and choose Go->Library

2) Move the Fonts folder to your desktop.

3) Log out and log back in.


See? TextEdit now works with Helvetica.

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Apr 18, 2023 5:08 AM in response to jfgaylord

jfgaylord wrote:

Originally, after had installed Monterey on the fresh SSD, I found out that I could make a new partition (which I don't think I could have done with a regular HD). Will I be able to erase the added partition from the SSD without affecting the other one containing Monterey and the accompanying modern applications? This would be my first step before dealing with the font issue.

I don’t recommend making any changes in your disk partitioning. That was more of a suggestion for the future and a caution in case you notice other unusual behaviour. You were concerned about the operating system getting confused about the location of fonts. When you have multiple operating systems visible, that is a valid concern, regarding more than just fonts.


This is a difficult issue. Even a default installation of Monterey is extremely complicated if you look at the details (which Disk Utility is totally hiding from you). I don’t know how you made that partition. It looks like you would have to erase the entire hard drive to remove the container. I recommend leaving well enough alone for now.

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Apr 18, 2023 8:23 AM in response to Luis Sequeira1

Move it "aside" to where? If I move it to the Desktop it merely copies to there. Should I rename it temporarily? Considering the evidence you uncovered that Monterey has been accessing the fonts folder from my High Sierra on the other partition, shouldn't I first delete the MacOS on that partition? Or is there an 'uninstall' procedure for that?

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TextEdit docs opened in MacOS 12.6 Monterey are garbled

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