Airplay 2

Looks like Apple is now streaming Apple Music at CD quality (pcm/44100/16/ ) over airplay. Below is a test I did using a number of Apple devices to a Blusound Node 2i streamer. I used http://myplayer.blue/ to check the bit rate on the streams going to the Node 2i. I used the Stones Hackney Diamonds album for the source, 24 Bit for Qobuz and Apple Hi res for Apple Music. Bluetooth was AAC as expected.

Device Source Stream mode bit rate Source quality

IphoneIOS 17.1.2. Qobuz Airplay pcm/44100/16/ Hi-Res 24 Bit 96 kHz

IphoneIOS 17.1.2 Qobuz Bluetooth AAC

Ipad ProiPadOS 17.1.2 Qobuz Airplay pcm/44100/16/

Ipad ProiPadOS 17.1.2 Qobuz Bluetooth AAC

MacBook Air Sonoma 14.1.1 Qobuz Airplay pcm/44100/16/

MacBook AirSonoma 14.1.1 Qobuz Bluetooth AAC

IphoneIOS 17.1.2 Apple Music Airplay pcm/44100/16/ Hi Res Lossless (Apple)

IphoneIOS 17.1.2 Apple Music Bluetooth AAC

Ipad ProiPadOS 17.1.2 Apple Music Airplay pcm/44100/16/

Ipad ProiPadOS 17.1.2 Apple Music Bluetooth AAC

MacBook Air Sonoma 14.1.2 Apple Music Airplay pcm/44100/16/

MacBook AirSonoma 14.1.2 Apple Music Bluetooth AAC

Apple TVtvOS 17.2 Apple Music Airplay pcm/44100/16/

Was this finally addressed (or confirmed to be true?)

If my understanding is correct, the following is true? (the last one is the one I can't seem to get the correct info on)

Currently as of Sept 2023:

• If I stream Apple Music to my Denon via Airplay 2 - regardless of the info in the apple music app, I am only getting 256AAC
• If I stream Apple Music to my Denon via an HDMI connected (and properly configured AppleTV) I am getting max of 24bit/48hz
• If I stream Tidal App to my Denon via Airplay then I will get max of 24/48 (airplay 2 limit)
• If I stream Tidal via HEOS app then it leverages the AVRs internet connection and I will get Tidal to 24/96 or 192

Thanks for the help!

This is why I’m switching to another music subscription, which actually provides lossless audio. I’m not bothered about high resolution, but I hate the fact I can’t play lossless audio on my Sonos equipment.

Thanks for your insight. You are correct that it is still lossy in some cases. Using Apple Music on MacOS (MacBook Air Sonoma 14.2.1 and using Airplay from the Music app it appears to send AAC 256kbps even though it still states the sample rate at 16/44.1. However if you setup Airplay at the MacOS level instead of in Apple Music it does appear to be bit perfect. I used bmon to monitor the Rx and Tx rates while playing the same lossless song through Apple Music ( see the graphs below). The Apple Music airplay transmits approx 30-35 % less data and/or packets than it receives. Using MacOS airplay there are approx. 20-30% more data and/or packets transmitted than received. The Rx and Tx were reset to 0 before each capture and the capture was only for the length of the songs each time. No other applications were running on the Mac other than minor background tasks. I did the test for a number of songs and they all had similar results.

/bmon capture when using Airplay in the Apple Music application.

/bmon capture when using Airplay at the MacOS level

I don't have any easy way to test data rates for IOS devices. I tried a few WiFi analyzers but they were not granular enough to see what was happening. My router doesn't provide throughput rates. I would guess that Apple Music on IOS devices is 256 AAC based on discussions elsewhere.

I did try Airplaying from my Mac to my HomePod to see what would happen but it just passed the playing of the music to the HomePod (ie the Rx and Tx on the Mac didn't increase once the song started on the HomePod )

The reason I was interested in this is that the Bluesound Node 2i does not stream Apple Music natively as it does Qobuz or Tidal. I wanted to move back to Apple Music by Airplaying from my HomePod (voice commands) to the Bluesound Node. As a result of this I will continue to use Apple Music, will just use my Mac when I want to do some serious listening. Hope that helps. If I have something incorrect or there are any other ideas I am all ears :)

On a side note, I am currently reading Steve Jobs biography so I get where a lot of this control and silence from Apple comes from!

So, what’s the purpose of Lossless Apple Music when one practically cannot output Lossless streams out of IPhone, iPad to speakers, airplay2 streamers, headphones, AirPods etc??

Only way is USB interface out of Mac….

Apple mystery…

Nope. Still not lossless 16/44. That is a BluOS API.

Airplay 2 streams to Airplay 2 devices are still lossy AAC 256kbps.

More here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BUee0PqM6LC4lo6HqTtEb5bQxs4GoCFSxvEsOveWvS8/edit

Hi,

nothing as yet. I don’t know why apple would frustrate its music service subscribers by not providing lossless or Dolby Atmos via iPhone, iPad and Mac over AirPlay. You can’t even play lossless via the Sonos app only Dolby Atmos. The only way you can listen to lossless is through the Apple TV.

I would send a request feature feedback here Feedback - Apple Music - Apple

Maybe they will sort this out.

Thanks for that clear explanation. Getting to the truth about Apple's lossless has been frustrating and disappointing. Especially the Airplay 2 dupe. Thankfully, I held on to my CD collection and CD player. I'm 70 and still listening to the generation of music I collected. With my $19. Apple wired EarPods and CarPlay, I'm hopefully covered until these issues get sorted out.

This is my concern. If he played from the Blue app, I dunno. He needs to send this via Apple Music on iOS to really know. But then, he could not use this test web site. So someone with the right high end audio DAC needs to do this with something minimal like an Airport Express v2 with firmware updated to latest. Then we can be sure.

BTW, you can downgrade an Express v2 to an older firmware to force other sources to send only Airplay 1 to it. I do that. Until Apple fixes this. I also use Airfoil which shows, it is possible to send 16/44 to Airplay 1 and 2 devices at same time (from a Mac, at least). I think it runs in exclusive mode, which may be what Bluesound is doing as well.

curious if I AP2 from my phone to my AppleTV g2 box & HDMI it to my DAC - will I be getting lossless 24bit audio ?

TIA

That’s really frustrating. I loved the fact that they’re offering lossless quality music of my fav songs across the board for no additional cost. But what’s the point of actually offering it if you can’t make it work as easy and seamless as it should be, especially within your own ecosystem. They just announced a new VR experience but I still have to have most my devices wired in order to experience lossless music even tho AirPlay is capable of delivering that? C’mon…

that’s me not even getting into how pointless high res lossless actually is for the average consumer …

I agree, it’s frustrating as do so many other Apple Music / Sonos users. It’s typical Apple, just like not adding the calculator app for the iPad, USB C to the Apple TV remote and not the iPhone 14 line up? Why would anyone at apple seem to think this is acceptable, is beyond me!?

Bluesound uses an exclusive mode for Airplay. So this is not an Apple fix for this problem.

I solved it by setting up an Airport Express v2 firmware back to Airplay 1. 16/44 for sure as any sending device has to match Airplay 1.

If I need multi speaker, I use Rogue Amoeba Airfoil from Mac, also exclusive and to all Airplay types at once.

So, I have same question for Apple, when will this be fixed? It is hurting business as many people get upset over it. Despite it being nearly impossible to tell AAC 256 from ALAC 16/44.

Rob_F1: I'm not an engineer, like Steve, so your graphs are gibberish to me. :-)

I use Apple Music. I solved it by downgrading my Airport Expresses v2 to last Airplay 1 firmware. No matter what resolution is sending, it is always 16/44 lossless (as that is all I own in my collection or play from Apple Music).

But yes, you have discovered what many have found. Airplay 2 depends.

Since I play to better office or living room or bedroom systems individually, the Expresses is fine in there (with a little better AKM DAC on each). I have some MusicCast speakers and some HomePod minis and for those, Airplay 2 is fine for multi-room. The Apple Music app or iOS will not let you play to Airplay 1 and 2 at same time. A check mark in circle is Airplay 2 for iOS. Just a checkmark (only possible one at time) is Airplay 1.

Also, if you use iTunes Remote (AKA Remote app) on iOS, it will play your own music library from a Mac 16/44 lossless. But, Remote has been buggy lately.

If you use Airfoil on a Mac, all of this is gone. It will play both to Airplay 1 and 2 devices at same time and is 16/44. While Apple Music for MacOS doesn’t have an exclusive mode, Airfoil is exclusive. It bypasses the Apple audio processor - the cause of much of this. But, Mac only.

So, no fix yet for this. :-(

I also play CDs… :-)

Actually you’re able to output lossless music through AirPlay from your HomePod. And the recently updated AirPods Pro2 ( USB-C ) did come with a kinda hidden update in the code whereas you‘ll be able to output lossless music through them when they‘re connected to their Vision Pro. You should check out Marques Brownlees YT channel, he spoke about it in one of his recent videos.

I wonder if they also updated a couple more devices since their iPhone15 update finally received USB-C !

anyone with some new input especially about AirPlay?