Level 1

20 points

Airplay 2

According to this article from March 2023 on the What HiFi website(see below), using Airplay 2 will change the music file in Apple music from lossless to lossy. Apple was said to be working to fix the problem. Has this been fixed yet?

As we have noted in our lossless audio explainer, the AirPlay 2 protocol supports lossless music (audio up to 24-bit/48kHz, in fact) so those with music files stored on their iOS device can send it over AirPlay to another device losslessly. However, the news isn't so good with regards to using AirPlay 2 to send lossless Apple Music streams. Apple Music’s Lossless streams supposedly convert from ALAC (Apple’s lossless codec) into AAC (Apple’s lossy codec) at a pretty lowly 256kbps when transmitted over AirPlay – and therefore not losslessly.

In other words, yes, AirPlay 2 does support lossless audio, but perhaps not for the use case you might want it to.

Apple is apparently working on an update to enable lossless over AirPlay (we are reaching out to Apple to confirm), so fingers crossed that this transpires and thus Apple’s lossless offering becomes validated.

iPhone SE, iOS 15

Posted on Apr 20, 2023 5:50 AM

Top-ranking reply

Rob_F1

Level 1

15 points

Posted on Mar 19, 2024 3:10 PM

Thanks for your insight. You are correct that it is still lossy in some cases. Using Apple Music on MacOS (MacBook Air Sonoma 14.2.1 and using Airplay from the Music app it appears to send AAC 256kbps even though it still states the sample rate at 16/44.1. However if you setup Airplay at the MacOS level instead of in Apple Music it does appear to be bit perfect. I used bmon to monitor the Rx and Tx rates while playing the same lossless song through Apple Music ( see the graphs below). The Apple Music airplay transmits approx 30-35 % less data and/or packets than it receives. Using MacOS airplay there are approx. 20-30% more data and/or packets transmitted than received. The Rx and Tx were reset to 0 before each capture and the capture was only for the length of the songs each time. No other applications were running on the Mac other than minor background tasks. I did the test for a number of songs and they all had similar results.

/bmon capture when using Airplay in the Apple Music application.

/bmon capture when using Airplay at the MacOS level

I don't have any easy way to test data rates for IOS devices. I tried a few WiFi analyzers but they were not granular enough to see what was happening. My router doesn't provide throughput rates. I would guess that Apple Music on IOS devices is 256 AAC based on discussions elsewhere.

I did try Airplaying from my Mac to my HomePod to see what would happen but it just passed the playing of the music to the HomePod (ie the Rx and Tx on the Mac didn't increase once the song started on the HomePod )

The reason I was interested in this is that the Bluesound Node 2i does not stream Apple Music natively as it does Qobuz or Tidal. I wanted to move back to Apple Music by Airplaying from my HomePod (voice commands) to the Bluesound Node. As a result of this I will continue to use Apple Music, will just use my Mac when I want to do some serious listening. Hope that helps. If I have something incorrect or there are any other ideas I am all ears :)

On a side note, I am currently reading Steve Jobs biography so I get where a lot of this control and silence from Apple comes from!

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29 replies

Jun 6, 2023 4:24 AM in response to BruceWayne96

I agree, it’s frustrating as do so many other Apple Music / Sonos users. It’s typical Apple, just like not adding the calculator app for the iPad, USB C to the Apple TV remote and not the iPhone 14 line up? Why would anyone at apple seem to think this is acceptable, is beyond me!?

Sep 22, 2023 5:39 AM in response to alex_atanassov

Actually you’re able to output lossless music through AirPlay from your HomePod. And the recently updated AirPods Pro2 ( USB-C ) did come with a kinda hidden update in the code whereas you‘ll be able to output lossless music through them when they‘re connected to their Vision Pro. You should check out Marques Brownlees YT channel, he spoke about it in one of his recent videos.

I wonder if they also updated a couple more devices since their iPhone15 update finally received USB-C !

anyone with some new input especially about AirPlay?

Nov 4, 2023 4:18 PM in response to Sarge_72

Thanks for that clear explanation. Getting to the truth about Apple's lossless has been frustrating and disappointing. Especially the Airplay 2 dupe. Thankfully, I held on to my CD collection and CD player. I'm 70 and still listening to the generation of music I collected. With my $19. Apple wired EarPods and CarPlay, I'm hopefully covered until these issues get sorted out.

Jan 10, 2024 8:02 AM in response to Rob_F1

Hi Rob - This is great news. Do you know if this is limited to your Blusound Node, or for any AirPlay2 enabled device? I am trying to hook-up some powered Triangle speakers to integrate into my Sonos world, and planning to use a WIIM mini and the optical output to stream Apple Music into the speakers… But don’t want to be streaming lossy AAC.

Any way to verify this has been fixed across the board?

Very encouraging, if this is the case!

Thanks!

Feb 13, 2024 5:52 AM in response to Rob_F1

This would be great news if it’s definitely the case. Do we know for sure that the bit rates etc. reported by myplayer are actually what’s being streamed and not just the stated bit rate of the original file?

Apple Music has always reported a file as being lossless even when external tests (reported by Darko amongst others) have verified the streams as being downgraded to AAC.

I couldn’t find anything in myplayer’s help to clarify this.

does anyone know if the Apple Music app on the Apple TV HD supports lossless? Apple only makes reference to the ATV 4k on its support page.

esumsea

Level 1

12 points

May 9, 2024 7:05 AM in response to proacguy1

I'm confused. Does this reduced streaming occur only with music streamed through the Apple Music subscription service or does this also occur with music that resides in your computer as digital files? I realize Rob_F! says everything is up to CD quality again, but I want to clear up if this was just happening with music streamed from Apple Music or with files stored on the computer.

May 22, 2024 10:15 AM in response to esumsea

Same basic question as esumsea. If I download Apple Music files in "lossless" quality to my iPhone and then use Airplay 2 to play them on an external speaker, are they being played losslessly, or are they only played in lossy AAC quality?

Ataraxy01

Level 2

179 points

May 22, 2024 12:15 PM in response to esumsea

Files played from a Mac to an Airplay 1 receiver, like ripped CDs or downloaded lossless music bought online (not from Apple except if you download lossless file from Apple Music streaming subscription [rental music, essentially, you do not own it]), will play 16/44 lossless, the max that Airplay 1 will send.

I play my rips all the time from my Mac to my DAC via Airplay and they play 16/44 since the DAC gets its data from an Airplay 1 receiving device. I control my Music library using Remote app on iOS.

If you run a wire from your playback device, and it has a higher resolution file on it, and your DAC is capable, and the recording is high resolution (few are), then you can do whatever you want.

But, I would not fret over any of this audiophile nonsense. It is impossible to tell the difference. The quality of the recording is a much bigger factor in the quality of playback versus lossy or lossless.

May 22, 2024 12:48 PM in response to Ataraxy01

Thanks for the answer, Ataraxy01. One little follow up / clarification, if I may:

My sending device (iphone) is using Airplay 2. The receiving device (external Naim wireless speaker) is also using Airplay 2, which I have confirmed based on the check mark in the circle.

The files I am playing from the sending device are downloaded lossless files from Apple Music. Even though they are downloaded and not being streamed, will they still be downgraded to AAC, based on both sending and receiving devices using Airplay 2?

Jun 5, 2023 1:24 PM in response to proacguy1

Is there any news on this ? has apple updated, addressed or maybe even solved that issue ?

Sep 28, 2023 4:44 PM in response to proacguy1

Really disappointing

Dec 21, 2023 6:49 AM in response to proacguy1

curious if I AP2 from my phone to my AppleTV g2 box & HDMI it to my DAC - will I be getting lossless 24bit audio ?

TIA

Dec 21, 2023 2:19 PM in response to Rob_F1

Hi Rob!

Thx for your info! What about Dolby Atmos? Will I get it over AirPlay 2?

Jan 6, 2024 9:21 AM in response to Rob_F1

If that is correct those are great news.

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Airplay 2