Mac OS X ventura - best way to create a clone of my system drive for emergency recovery

I've tried both CCC and SuperDuper! to create a bootable clone. They don't work well. As HWTech noted, the developer of CCC says that Apple very much discourages trying to do this. The way Apple protects macOS from Big Sur forward, cloning the entire drive is not reliable.

There are two ways to do it that will work every time, and they are very similar. I use CCC.

First, use a separate drive, or create a hard partition on one large enough to hold your third party apps and personal data, plus at least 20% more room. The backup you make must have its own space and not be part of a shared volume.

1. Use CCC to copy the main drive to the backup drive/volume. Do not have Legacy Bootable Copy Assistant on for the target drive. This will copy only your data and anything else that does not belong to macOS. As far as SafetyNet, I always have it off.
2. Else, use Time Machine to backup your drive to the backup drive/volume.
3. Install Ventura to the external drive normally. Create a bootable flash drive installer first if you wish, or connect online to Apple's servers.
4. When the installer is almost done and it reaches the point where it asks if you have data to restore, choose yes. Then point it to your CCC or TM backup.

I don't use Time Machine, so can't comment on how the final install/restore works. But with CCC, there is one small but annoying issue. Any entries you had in the System Settings under Privacy & Security will be gone. You'll need to add them again as you launch your third party apps.

SuperDuper can make a bootable clone, even with the latest Mac models and MacOS. You first format/erase the external drive to APFS. Then you tell SuperDuper to erase the external (a second erase step) and copy from the internal drive to the external. This works, but the external bootable clone cannot have its MacOS updated beyond what was cloned; to update it one must repeat those steps above. So it's bootable in an emergency but not a fully functional clone for long term use, unless you are ok never applying updates to it.

I think the best way to recover from a disaster is to boot into recovery and erase/format/reinstall the MacOS, and then use Migration Assistant to migrate files back from the external clone. I don't think having a bootable clone makes a lot of sense anymore, with the latest Apple security processes. The best use of these clones now is to simply have a copy or backup of one's files. The MacOS has to be restored from Apple's servers, and only from Apple's servers.

FYI, the layout of Apple Silicon internal SSDs is very different from the Intel Macs. In fact the Apple Silicon Macs have some hidden partitions which contain required files even just to boot the Apple Silicon Mac into the One True Recovery mode. I haven't tried booting from an external drive with macOS on the Apple Silicon Macs yet, so I'm not sure what those external drives will have on them. @tbirdvet is correct that a bootable external clone gives you nothing if the internal SSD fails since the internal SSD must have those critical hidden low level system files to even boot the Apple Silicon Mac. If those files are damaged or deleted, then the only way to fix the Apple Silicon Mac is by "Restoring" the firmware.

Revive or restore a Mac with Apple silicon using Apple Configurator - Apple Support

I would not rely on always having the ability to make bootable clones on the Apple Silicon Macs. The developer of CCC mentioned several years ago that Apple told him the days of bootable clones is numbered. The developer of CCC suggests to perform a clean install of macOS to an external drive and using CCC to sync your data to it.

https://bombich.com/kb/ccc6/cloning-macos-system-volumes-apple-software-restore

The only way to clone the system volume is by using the macOS "asr" utility which is how both CCC and SD make their clones these days.

Interesting. I have made several clones using CCC legacy and all work fine on my M1 and Intel Macs. The only annoying issue is that it always makes me sign in to iCloud each time I boot from the clone.

Randall_2023 wrote:

What exactly IS the "asr" utility and how does one access it?

It is a macOS command line utility....Apple Software Restore. It has been around for years with several different uses. One of its features is the ability to transfer an APFS volume or snapshot as one piece instead of dealing with the individual files & folders contained within the APFS volume or snapshot. Disk Utility utilizes the "asr" utility as well with its Restore feature, but Disk Utility has never been known to be reliable when making bootable clones which is why most contributors only recommend CCC or SD. If CCC or SD won't work, then don't expect Disk Utility or manually using "asr" to be any better.

From reading these forums I have seen a lot of people post that bootable clones of Apple Silicon Macs started being problematic after one of the update patches to macOS Monterey over a year ago. Some have reported success, while others failure. AFAIK, most people have been successful with using CCC & SD on Intel Macs even with Ventura.

I would definitely come up with a backup plan because one day a simple macOS update may permanently prevent the ability to make a bootable clone. If you rely completely on bootable clones as we know them now, then you may be scrambling to figure out a solution when it is most inconvenient. Plus if anything happens to the internal SSD, your external bootable clone will do you no good until the Mac is repaired.

I would suggest providing Apple with product feedback in the hopes enough people ask for this ability and Apple relents, although it is doubtful even if the entire community wants it. If you have not noticed your Macs are becoming glorified iPads...can you clone an iPad?

Product Feedback - Apple

I've done two or three install/restores using my CCC backup with Ventura. The only thing lost was the third party Privacy entries. Everything else was identical, including the desktop and the positions of everything on it.

If tou really want a bootable clone then use Carbon Copy Cloner which is what I use but remember if your internal drive fails with silicon mac you cannot use the external to boot

Cloning a startup drive rarely works on the sealed snapshot in Ventura or Monterey.

Are you using Intel or Apple Silicon? The method of choosing an external startup drive is different.

If you want some sort of “recovery” drive, install the OS on an external drive. If you want a backup on it, you could partition it and back up to the non-startup partition.

Recovery would likely work better unless you don’t have an internet connection. In that case, a bootable installer USB would make a better recovery system.

I use SuperDuper! So far the clones on four Macs (Monterey and Ventura) have started up and run perfectly multiple times since I installed it late January of this year. Before that I used CCC, but for cloning I prefer SD!.

tbirdvet wrote:

If you really want a bootable clone then use Carbon Copy Cloner which is what I use but remember if your internal drive fails with silicon mac you cannot use the external to boot

Excellent Point 👍

Without a Functional Internal Drive on any M1 / M2 computer the Clone or for that matter a Direct Installation to an external Drive become useless

It appears to an All or to the Shop for Major Repairs or Replacement - sadly

Yup, it somewhat works, which I didn't make clear. The clone will boot but the user may see weird issues (such as you having to sign into iCloud at each startup) that won't go away.

I tried cloning Ventura on both a 2018 Intel mini, and a 2023 M2 Pro mini. Each "worked", but not well. Installing the OS to an erased drive and merging in your CCC backup near the end of the process never has such issues. Other than all of your Privacy entries being lost.

A couple of corrections to my steps above. I had yanked them out of a previous topic where the user wanted to put Ventura on an external drive.

I stated the CCC backup must be on a hard partition, but that likely isn't true. It should work just as well on a shared volume partition. I just haven't tried that one yet. On point 3. I stated an external drive. This is in reference to the other topic, and of course can just as easily be the internal drive.

Create a bootable installer for macOS - Apple Support

You did something wrong. I have used CCC hundreds of time and no issue.

I concur. Do not use CCC carbon copy cloner. It wiped out my Hd. Starting from scratch with an internal SSD. I texted apple support then s/w a senior tech who got me back on my feet again after that debacle. Yes, Bootable OS from a thumb drive is the way to go for pre-2015 macs ime.

Kurt Lang wrote:

Other than all of your Privacy entries being lost.

FYI, I've had some of those settings reset even when I used Migration Assistant along with some other random settings/preferences. It is very annoying not knowing or even realizing that Migration Assistant modified my preferences/settings without telling me. I'm still finding things months after my migration.