Can Bootup speed be improved Monterey 12.6.7

Australopithicus01 wrote:

1. External case is cheap Chinese ‘No Brand’ which I used to format original ADATA. It does not support SMART.

I will only buy items manufactured by respected brands. The no-name brands are too risky for multiple reasons since many cut corners which can affect compatibility, reliability, and even safety. I've seen some bad stuff from a few brands that have been around for years (I don't necessarily consider them respected though).

2. ‘Restore’ as in; run First Aid, run Erase&Format, and run Restore. All failed as disk would not mount. Since no mounting possible I did not consider re-installing o/s. My concern was to clean the drive.

If you are trying to use the "Restore" feature of Disk Utility.....that usually doesn't work out very well especially for cloning a bootable OS. You do need a bootable source drive or image of one for the Disk Utility "Restore" feature to work. There is third party software which can do this though although Apple is making this option harder these days and may eliminate it completely in a future update.

If you mean the firmware "Restore" option involving using another host Mac to run Apple Configurator, then that should reset the T2 security chip and prepare the internal drive for macOS, but you will still need to launch Internet Recovery Mode afterwards (Command + Option + R) to actually install macOS since this firmware "Restore" option does not usually push a clean copy of macOS to the internal drive for an Intel Mac (It will for an Apple Silicon Mac). This firmware "Restore" using Apple Configurator is just as good as a traditional clean install (perhaps even better since it will properly reset the internal drive for the user).

3. Drive showed in Disk utility under Controller model SM2262EN, not the original ID which was the name of the external drive ‘J Micron Tech Media’ being found by the firmware o/s at time of installation in iMac. As disk would not mount further action impossible.

When the drive is installed internally, then the drive's own controller will usually be seen by the system...typically it will be the brand name or model of the drive itself. For externally connected drives, the chipset used by the adapter, dock, or enclosure will usually be what identifies the drive.

5. Seems I need to upgrade my external drive before and further diagnosis is possible. Do you have a recommended model to suggest-there is so much stuff out there and finding tech specs. not always easy.

I like products from Plugable (they usually give lots of tech details....not sure they will all allow SMART though), and StarTech (I've never encountered a dock/adpater/enclosure from them which did not support SMART). I usually prefer devices utilizing the ASMedia chipset since JMicron chipsets seem to be more hit or miss. It is also a good idea to get a USB3 device which also supports UASP for best performance.

Run DriveDx and post the complete DriveDx text report here using the "Additional Text" icon which looks like a piece of paper. Apple SSD's don't have a lot of health information, but it may still provide a clue. This is the best place to start.

If I don't see any issues with the SSD's health report, then I would advise you to try a firmware "Restore" which resets the T2 security chip & firmware.....you will then need to reinstall macOS once more this time through Internet Recovery Mode. The firmware "Restore" does require access to another Mac running macOS 12.4+ (at least this was the requirement last time I check, but it will likely increase at some point....most likely once macOS Sonoma has been released later this year).

Keep in mind it is best to let the SSD to sit idle for a while so that the SSD can recover from all the data written to it during a macOS installation. While Apple SSDs are better than most for having fast writes, the SSD may still need to recover especially when you are monitoring the SSD so closely. While writing this response, I just realized that macOS is probably indexing the SSD for Spotlight which may explain some of the slowness or intermittent issues.

I haven't really tested the SSD write speeds of the recent iMacs so I'm not sure what is normal with their specific SSDs. I just want to confirm that this Apple 128GB SSD is the original SSD which shipped with this iMac from the factory?

I would also suggest installing macOS onto an external drive and boot from the external drive. Run the Black Magic speed test on the internal SSD to see what is reported (you need to point Black Magic to the Users folder on the internal SSD since that is the only portion of the SSD you can write to. This will give you the SSDs best speeds since you are not booted from that SSD....a boot drive will be accessing the SSD causing deviations. Just make sure you disable Spotlight indexing on the internal SSD so that is not interfering.

I'm assuming there are no other third party apps installed other than Black Magic and you are not signed into an AppleID and have not restored from a backup. You want to have a clean install with just a local macOS admin user account.

Does this iMac only contain the original Apple memory? Or has third party memory been installed?

Remember to disconnect all external devices except when you are booting from an external macOS boot disk.

Ok HWTech,

the Ugreen External drive case arrived today and the 2TB Adata SX8600 is now loaded and connected via Lightning. It is a 10Gbps model max throughput. No software can reformat SX8600 as it cannot be mounted.

Perhaps the Adata can be mounted through the command line.

Drive Dx cannot recognise external drives neither Ventura on the Samsung T7 or Adata on the Ugreen external.

The iMac is running Monterey 12.6.7 downloaded from Apple Restore via Internet (Command R). Avira virus detection is switched off. Spotlight items are all un-ticked (unloaded). Other apps are Firefox, Disk Drill, Silent Knight, Onyx Black Magic, App Cleaner and music recording apps all of which were unopened.

1. Mac registers SM2262 in Disk utility but cannot Erase, Restore or use First Aid.

2. Report from Smartmontools and Disk Utility.

3.Report Drive DX for Apple SM0128L.

1. Drive DX results for Apple Disk SM0128L as attached:

1. External case is cheap Chinese ‘No Brand’ which I used to format original ADATA. It does not support SMART.
2. ‘Restore’ as in; run First Aid, run Erase&Format, and run Restore. All failed as disk would not mount. Since no mounting possible I did not consider re-installing o/s. My concern was to clean the drive.
3. Drive showed in Disk utility under Controller model SM2262EN, not the original ID which was the name of the external drive ‘J Micron Tech Media’ being found by the firmware o/s at time of installation in iMac. As disk would not mount further action impossible.
4. Drive X reports ‘Diagnostics of external drive unavailable’. External drive is too primitive. For that same reason Disk Drill cannot offer SMART monitoring.
5. Seems I need to upgrade my external drive before and further diagnosis is possible. Do you have a recommended model to suggest-there is so much stuff out there and finding tech specs. not always easy.

Thanks again HW Tech

Update since previous comments below:

I have attempted to try TestDisk for Mac using https://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/TestDisk_Step_By_Step

but my instructions do not work. See below:

Are you able to offer any guidance at all please?

I would avoid the fusion drive architecture which has proved problematic for Apple in the end. It makes operations more complex, which means there are more things that can go wrong.

I would configure your Mac in the way that it performs best. I would run some benchmarks to determine that. I would not put priority on the boot up time but rather how it performs when you are using it as you normally do.

I'm assuming you installed these SSDs internally? It was never explicitly mentioned, but seemed implied when you mentioned not making a Fusion Drive.

If so, then you are using an adapter for the NVMe SSD. What adapter are you using? From reading these forums for years, it seems like the Sintech SSD adapter is the most reliable & compatible adapter. That would be the first thing to try if you are using any other adapter.

Keep in mind not all SSDs are compatible with all computers.

Plus SSDs are very hard to understand as the manufacturers are no longer providing exact technical details about them anymore, more of an expected performance rating which only gives you a vaguest of expectations. You cannot even trust any professional reviews of SSDs these days because the SSD manufacturers are changing the internal components without making any changes to the SSD's model number. So what you see in one review may not pertain to the SSD you actually purchase. Or the SSD you purchase today, may be completely different than the one you purchase tomorrow even if the model is identical.

Because the SSD manufacturers are doing this, the behavior of the SSD may be significantly different under various conditions even if the overall performance may still remain the same.

Plus many SSDs are plagued by slowness after writing GBs of data in a short period of time which overflows the SSD's write cache (usually occurs in about 30-60 seconds of writing non-stop). Some SSDs recover quickly while others can take hours or more to recover their performance. So you may need to let the SSD time to recover before looking at the performance of the SSD.

One way of figuring some of this out could be to test the SSD externally to see how it performs assuming you have a USB3 adapter/enclosure for the SSD which is able to handle the high transfer rates of the NVMe SSD (these enclosures can be hard to find), plus you want the USB enclosure and every USB device in the chain between the SSD and the computer to support the UASP protocol for optimal performance of USB3. However, these iMacs don't make it easy to access the internal drives for these kinds of tests which would help you to determine if the SSD is at fault, or possible the adapter. It may even tell you if the SSD/adapter combo is compatible with this Mac since if the SSD performs well externally, it may mean their is a compatibility issue of some sort with the SSD/adapter setup.

I would avoid the Fusion Drive setup with two SSDs. I'm not sure how Apple determines which SSD is used for caching, plus it would be a waste of a 2TB SSD.

Once again thank for an illuminating set of observations HW Tech.

Yes, I opened the iMac and inserted the new SSD’s. My SSD research was extensive an frustrating due to the reasons you mention and my own febrile grasp of all the issues. Mac Rumours offered considerable information from the experience of others, but few had updated the iMac model 19.1. which is one step closer to all those Apple security features which are hostile to non-apple devices. (That was clear with Ventura and persuaded me to step back to Monterey). Those who had used Samsung NVME 870 Evo Plus found TRIM problems with increasing startup times. Intel and WD Black seemed reliable for iMac many models but economy persuaded me to try the ADATA SX8600 which gives equivalent, if not better speeds than Samsung or WD Black PCIE 3.1 while remaining TLC3.

I used Tom’s Warehouse for reviews Which was very positive about the Adata SX 8200 but I have found no reviews of the 8600 other than the Adata site. https://www.adata.com/th/xpg/solid-state-drive-SX8600-Pro?tab=specification. Both blades use the SMI SM2262EN controller.

After a week I am finding glitches and bad behaviour which I am sure is the result of the NVME installation. My first suspicion is the quality of the adapter I purchased from China. I have now bought this alternative; https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/B0BNF21NMZ?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

The Sintech you mention has been endorsed by many users and that is to be respected. The ADATA is a two sided NVME and it seemed to me unnecessary to use a 2280 Sintech platform crowding the space while inhibiting ventilation of the NVME. The short adapter is a rigid fit into the adapter and PCIE key. Also the Sintech is usually endorsed with single sided Blades and I did not like the idea of a memory chip sitting on the adapter. However, that seems to often occur with external M2 NVME drive enclosures. I would certainly like to learn your views on this matter.

The adapter is far more important decision than I had appreciated. Compatibility is more important than economy. I shall advise results of further tests.

Thanks to all for your input.

Australopithicus01 wrote:

there are clearly compatibility issues which need attention.

There are no compatibility issues. Apple does not support 3rd party internal storage in any device - not even the Mac Pro.

With respect, I find that an odd statement. If you are repeating Apple corporate policy I understand and can agree.

If you are implying an Imac cannot accept non-Apple parts then there is a history of successful upgrades using non-apple NVME and associated components which contradicts your assertion.

However, as of 2020 models, your statement is acceptable as an overall fact.

With respect, I find that an odd statement. If you are repeating Apple corporate/service policy I understand and can agree.

If you are implying an Intel Imac cannot accept non-Apple parts, there is a lengthy history of successful upgrades using non-apple NVME and associated components which contradicts your assertion.

However, as of 2020 Intel iMac models, your statement is acceptable as an overall fact.

Further research revealed this cautionrelating to the NVME upgrade of a 2017 Intel iMac:

3. Faulty installation of the non-Apple NVME M.2 drive using the Sintech

adapter, which can result in electrical shorting between the adapter's

electrical "wiring" and the metal shield of the logic board NVME

connector. In my case, this problem developed several days after a

"successful" install.

Matches my own experience. Point is Sintech or non Sintech, some insulation is required. My adapter is a NFHK N-941A. Buy from Ali Express at $1-66 plus or buy from Amazon at $7.00. Same product.

I don't understand the flat statement of denial concerning all 3rd party hardware. My late 2015 21.5" iMac Retina with the 5400RPM HDD was dismally slow at about 90 MBps being a typical read speed. I was offered $70 trade in and decided to make it a "project" Mac instead.

I cracked open the case and replaced the HDD with a Samsung 860EVO SSD. That was in 2020 and it's been flawless in operation since then. Read speeds now are typically 540 MBps and it's has yet to fault. It's now my 2020 iMac's mirror.

It is limited to Monterey OS, but that's fine with me ... it's a backup; not a primary production machine.

Support was/is irrelevant as it works and I'm fully aware I voided a non existent warranty on a five year old [at the time] Mac

ku4hx wrote:

I don't understand the flat statement of denial concerning all 3rd party hardware.

Well it isn't concerning all 3rd party hardware, just all 3rd party internal hardware. You can try to make your case to Apple if you want. Good luck trying to convince a 3 trillion dollar corporation that they've been doing wrong.

My late 2015 21.5" iMac Retina with the 5400RPM HDD was dismally slow at about 90 MBps being a typical read speed.

LOL! That's quite fast for 2015 21" iMac. 😄

I cracked open the case and replaced the HDD with a Samsung 860EVO SSD. That was in 2020 and it's been flawless in operation since then. Read speeds now are typically 540 MBps and it's has yet to fault. It's now my 2020 iMac's mirror.

That's a difficult machine. No good answer there. By comparison, a 2017 has Thunderbolt 3. Why crack the case when you can use an external at 5x the speed? I replaced the internal with an SSD on my wife's old 2010 27" iMac. It wasn't easy and the results, although not bad, were not mind-blowing either. That machine's long gone.

It is limited to Monterey OS, but that's fine with me ... it's a backup; not a primary production machine.

Support was/is irrelevant as it works and I'm fully aware I voided a non existent warranty on a five year old [at the time] Mac

I think part of the problem here is so many people are spending so much time and effort on 5 year old computers. They spend a few hundred dollars and think they're getting some kind of deal.

I want people to have a great experience. Apple is, and always was, a premium platform. It's not the choice if you want to save money. So what's the point in spending so much to begin with, and then using it long after it's expiry date?

No one should consider upgrading any intel Mac without first spending some quality time with Apple Silicon. I can't imagine going back. The only downside is the software. Monterey has a couple of annoying bugs but Ventura is just slapped together. My new computer can only run Ventura. I'm upgrading as soon as Sonoma is available. Can't be any worse, right? 🤞

I have this inside my 2015 iMac (replacing an original HDD):

Device Name: Samsung SSD 870 EVO 1TB

  Media Name: AppleAPFSMedia

  Medium Type: SSD

  Protocol: SATA

It boots up in 23 seconds. I get 500 MB/s, I have a low end SSD in there, yours is faster. I think if I were you I would go with the SSD that boots up fastest (13 seconds for you) as the other appears to have issues. And as I indicated earlier, I would avoid the fusion architecture entirely. Your computer is already 4 years old, I would avoid acrobatics to try to squeeze a bit more performance, I would keep it simple.