Intermittent Functionality

I have recently been thrown into a Macbook environmnt, and seeking assistance in remedying the following. Any advice is appreciated.


First off, I've just come to be reminded that, when logging in to this Apple ID system, I'm requested to enter a code sent to my phone. I hear the notification, but when I pick up the phone, there is no visual. I am forced to resend the code and watch the phone. Is this normal?


To the original reason for writing in today: I am working across three Macbooks, all with the same OS (Sonoma) installed. On one of these machines, as of 03 Sep, I may no longer use the tab key to cycle between the buttons in a pop-up window (Save, Do Not Save, Cancel). This is true for all programs that offer such pop-ups, productivity, browser, etc. On the other two machines this feature is still functional.


Furthermore, on one of the machines, as of a few days ago, I may no longer Cmd~ to switch between open instances of Finder (and only Finder; Cmd~ functions to switch between windows of other apps). This feature still does in fact work on at least one other machine.


Is it normal in this environment that some features will function one day and not the next, or on one machine and not the other?


Any advice or ideas as to how to remedy these is very much appreciated.


Additionally, is it normal that almost every time that I submit to this forum I receive the error that "Your post could not be saved. Please try again in a few moments."?

MacBook Pro 14″, macOS 14.0

Posted on Oct 12, 2023 5:53 AM

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9 replies

Oct 12, 2023 7:22 AM in response to mnjaskiw

First off, I've just come to be reminded that, when logging in to this Apple ID system, I'm requested to enter a code sent to my phone. I hear the notification, but when I pick up the phone, there is no visual. I am forced to resend the code and watch the phone. Is this normal?


Please review Two-factor authentication for Apple ID - Apple Support. The code can be sent as a text message to any device, but it should automatically appear on any device logged in with that Apple ID.


On one of these machines, as of 03 Sep, I may no longer use the tab key to cycle between the buttons in a pop-up window (Save, Do Not Save, Cancel). This is true for all programs that offer such pop-ups, productivity, browser, etc.


I have no explanation for that one. The Tab key behavior works as it always has. It typically cycles through all clickable options; ⇧ tab cycles in the opposite direction.


Is it normal in this environment that some features will function one day and not the next, or on one machine and not the other?


No. I have lots of Macs using lots of different macOS versions and that doesn't happen. Are the Macs you have been thrown into using managed through MDM or other remote management service? If so that would explain a lot of what you are describing. Of course one reason for using MDM is so that all Macs work the same, but some MDM implementations are better than others.


You should probably explain what you mean by "thrown into". Obviously, different Macs used by different users can easily be configured to work differently. More detail will be required.


Additionally, is it normal that almost every time that I submit to this forum I receive the error that "Your post could not be saved. Please try again in a few moments."?


No, but I have encountered that annoying problem recently. I tried a number of routine workarounds (different browsers, different wireless networks, clear history, log out / log in etc) none of which helped. I suspect site maintenance is the cause.

Oct 23, 2023 12:01 PM in response to mnjaskiw

Two-factor authentication for Apple ID - Apple Support includes the screenshots that ought to appear when attempting to use your Apple ID for a service requiring authorization.


The way it's supposed to work is when you attempt to "sign in" to a website or service requiring those credentials, the first thing that happens is that you will immediately be notified of that attempt on all the Apple devices you designated as "trusted" as defined in that document. If you have many  devices nearby they will all chime at once in a cacophonous chorus. "Your Apple ID is being used to sign in to a new device" or words to that effect will appear with choices "Don't Allow" and "Allow". Clicking either one will immediately and simultaneously dismiss that dialog — on all those devices. The device can and should be the one you're using at the time assuming it is "signed in" to that same Apple ID. That's normal.


  • The wording in the above dialog may be a little misleading since "a new device" is not necessarily literally true. It may be (and usually is) a device that has had its record of being "trusted" forgotten or erased.


Immediately after selecting "Allow" a six digit code will appear that you need to type into the six separate digit placeholders that appear in the browser, service, or app you were attempting to use. Assuming you put those six digits correctly in their places then you are asked whether you want to "trust" that service or app in the future.


This may sound tedious and time-consuming but it really isn't, and it works quite well. Other (non-Apple) products and services implement 2FA in different ways, such as a text message or a voice phone call that reads you whatever code it needs to establish authentication.


Having said all that if it does not describe what you're experiencing then something is wrong. If it were difficult to use there would be a great outcry against Apple and people would revolt. Nobody likes 2FA but there were far too many people succumbing to phishing scams that Apple really had no choice. They implemented it in a way that is as good as things are likely to get for a while.


  • And if you don't believe me have a look at the Apple ID Community. Subscribing to it left me both overwhelmed and dismayed. Countless people succumb to those scams every day.


Next, regarding certain keyboard shortcuts: Start with Mac tips for Windows switchers - Apple Support and the included link Mac keyboard shortcuts - Apple Support. For example ⌘ ~ still works to cycle among multiple windows in windowed apps, but if it is not working as expected perhaps a conflicting Keyboard Shortcut overwrote it. If in doubt you can reset them to defaults. The Tab key itself is programmed to cycle among clickable choices. Various apps may have various ways of implementing keyboard navigation so there may be inconsistencies among non-Apple apps.


I imagine there is a method by which to turn off automatic updates, but this is obviously not the most desirable solution.


Yes you can do that: Update your Apple software - Apple Support in general and Keep your Mac up to date - Apple Support specifically for Macs. I also prefer to control when things get updated so that I can correlate them to either unexpected results, or something I may be doing wrong


Anyway I hope this is enough to get you pointed in the right direction for now.

Nov 2, 2023 3:40 AM in response to mnjaskiw

I receive audible notification on the iPhone, but no method by which to retrieve any visual to enter into, or from which to extract, codes. Nothing in the notifications, no other -evident- method by which to open the window that was cause for the audible notification.


All I can tell you is that it's not working as intended. I don't like 2FA (nobody does) but Apple has implemented it in as seamless a manner as can reasonably be expected. The notification appears (on all my devices), you approve of the access request (on any of those devices) and provide the code (on the device you're using). I think the only way you're going to get to the bottom of your difficulties is to contact Apple and have them confirm how it's supposed to work, or have them fix whatever is wrong — and it's anyone's guess what that might be. If it is not working as simply and as seamlessly as I explained then it's not something you will be able to fix on your own.


Contact Apple using this link: Official Apple Support


Perhaps there is no outcry against Apple because this is all with which the majority of users are familiar, and have never yet been exposed to systems functioning as expected? ;)


Understandable. There is an enormous chasm between those who have been using Macs for decades and Mac newbies transitioning from the Windows PC world. Both platforms do more or less the same things, but they do them in different ways. For example "function keys" were never a traditional part of the Mac universe, and were shoehorned into it as the hardware evolved in the early 1990s. So for example if you expect to find a traditional IBM / Windows PC PrtScn button (to print the screen on your dot matrix line printer) it's not there. To this day we field questions regarding that subject. Apple has to provide a selectable choice in System Preferences that allows the user to choose whether to use them to "control built-in Mac features or be used as standard function keys" — whatever "standard" that might have been: How to use the function keys on your Mac - Apple Support. It wasn't a Mac standard.


I suggest you contact Apple: Official Apple Support. Phone or chat support is included with the purchase of a new Mac, and they are adept at helping new Windows converts. At the very least you need to get to the bottom of the two-factor challenges you are experiencing. Something just doesn't seem right to me.

Nov 2, 2023 9:16 PM in response to mnjaskiw

mnjaskiw wrote:

Thank you for the response.

"thrown into" merely refers to the fact that I switched over to Macbook and iPhone this summer for personal use as well as spend a few months of the year on a project that has also done the same; hence three Macbooks on which I may be operating at any time via sudden transition.

Regarding the two-factor authentication, the code is in fact delivered to the iPhone, but it only creates an audible notification; when I open the phone to view and enter the appropriate code, there is no apparent method by which to actually view this notification. This is not important as I may resend the code and watch the phone for it to appear. It just doesn't seem too practical.

Make sure your iPhone is configured to allow text message notifications to appear on the lock screen.


Also, sometimes I won't always get the notification on the iPhone's lock screen. Usually when this happens, one of my other devices as "viewed" the message which seems to interrupt the iPhone from showing the notification. Also if the iPhone is unlocked even if you click the power button, a notification may not display on the iPhone's lock screen. In fact this actually happened to me tonight.....I sent a text and pressed the power button and heard the ding of receiving a response within a minute or so. When I checked the lock screen, no new text message was shown. I have my iPhone set not to lock immediately, so I'm guessing this message was received while the iPhone was still "unlocked" even though the lock screen would have been visible if I had picked up the iPhone at the time of the "ding".


Have you tried closing all open apps on the iPhone, then powering off the iPhone, followed by powering the iPhone back on to see if proper behavior returns? Every device needs to be power cycled at some point. I highly recommend closing all the apps first so that those apps are also "power" cycled so to speak.


Oct 22, 2023 11:37 PM in response to John Galt

Thank you for the response.


"thrown into" merely refers to the fact that I switched over to Macbook and iPhone this summer for personal use as well as spend a few months of the year on a project that has also done the same; hence three Macbooks on which I may be operating at any time via sudden transition.


Regarding the two-factor authentication, the code is in fact delivered to the iPhone, but it only creates an audible notification; when I open the phone to view and enter the appropriate code, there is no apparent method by which to actually view this notification. This is not important as I may resend the code and watch the phone for it to appear. It just doesn't seem too practical.


These three Macbooks on which I have been working are all over-the-counter retail units, with no back-end building or remote management (no MDM, I imagine). I just don't understand it. The tab function works on two of the machines and not one other (I would REALLY like to have this ability restored for the machine on which it no longer functions, which is my personal primary, if there are any suggestions on how I might go about re-enabling that).


I have also since discovered that, perhaps related, within Finder on at least one of these machines, I may no longer Cmd~ between open windows. It still works fine within other programs on this Macbook and still functions as expected on at least one other machine.

Things merely seem to be "happening" that are altering the functionality of these Macbooks, and I cannot determine how to stay on top of it, or how to defend against it. A few weeks ago, an Excel macro suddenly stopped functioning on two of these three Macbooks. While copying the code into discussion with MS support, I came to realize that perhaps the date format might have been the culprit (as it was coded in a non-dynamic fashion), and it turned out that it was. For some reason, the date format on two of these three machines was changed, rendering the macro inoperable (third machine was not affected). This was the second time something had changed in the background without notification to interfere with macro operation.


I imagine there is a method by which to turn off automatic updates, but this is obviously not the most desirable solution. I'm not even certain it is updates that are making these changes.


In any case, further suggestion on how I might restore 'tabbing' through pop-up window buttons on this one machine and how I might go about perhaps determining when and what periodic changes will be applied to these other systems, in order to defend against or prepare for those, would be much appreciated!

Nov 1, 2023 8:14 PM in response to John Galt

Hello John Galt,

Thank you again for the response.


I have no question regarding its value, and I fully understand how this two-factor authorization is supposed to work, but it doesn't. I receive audible notification on the iPhone, but no method by which to retrieve any visual to enter into, or from which to extract, codes. Nothing in the notifications, no other -evident- method by which to open the window that was cause for the audible notification. It seems that I am required to keep the phone in active state and be watching for the notification. This is not a big deal, as I may merely resend the request and watch the phone for it.


If it were difficult to use there would be a great outcry against Apple and people would revolt

Perhaps there is no outcry against Apple because this is all with which the majority of users are familiar, and have never yet been exposed to systems functioning as expected? ;)


To the matter at hand:

I have discovered that, regarding one particular keyboard combination that was intermittently failing and causing for great frustration (I was hoping to use Ctrl-F2 to "move focus to the menu bar" as indicated in System Settings); it appears that Ctrl-F1 disables and enables this functionality (I must have been inadvertently activating that). Tier 2 support was apparently not aware of this, having reached out to them.


Perhaps, as you have alluded to, there is a similar procedure that is disabling the Cmd~ functionality in Finder on one of these machines, and disabling the -tab through buttons in pop-up window- functionality on another.

I suppose I will never know, unless I happen upon it by fluke as I did with this Ctrl-F1. And this is the primary cause for my frustration with these new-to-me systems. Intermittent functionality with no apparent effect and no apparent knowledge to remedy.


In any case, thank you for your efforts.

Nov 11, 2023 5:41 PM in response to John Galt

Okay, thank you for the time and effort.


I really do miss the PrtScn key (but this Shift-Ctrl-Cmd-4 is nice ...other than the fact it's a 4-key sequence). But wow, I really miss the Delete key (I wonder if there is any way to set up Fn-Delete on Mac to make it a PC Del. Will have to look in to that)


I have been in touch with Apple Support many, many, times since this conversion, alas all to no avail. First level does not quite have the knowledge, and second tier doesn't really care to respond to my concern. I have determined that they also do not have the knowledge to offer solution to these specific problems (I mentioned the Ctrl-F2 concern a number of times, and not one of the technicians had any insight to offer that Ctrl-F1 disables and enables that function ...I'm curious as to whether the developers had even planned it as such, or how this ever came to be; perhaps nobody knows about it).


In any case, I suppose I live with it.


Thanks again

Nov 11, 2023 6:29 PM in response to mnjaskiw

"Forward delete" is incorporated on the Apple "Extended" keyboards and what they now call the keyboard with numeric keypad.


Steve Jobs was famously opposed to anything that hinted at clunky old mainframe computers, especially their ubiquitous function keys. In fact Apple introduced that massively oversized keyboard incorporating cursor and function keys only after he resigned. He hated it.


Mac tips for Windows switchers - Apple Support might be of interest to you.

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Intermittent Functionality

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