Beta User Tip for getting DV footage onto a current Mac

Here is a beta user tip I wrote. Please add any criticisms or comments

Getting DV (Digital Video) onto current Macs


Around the turn of the century, there were many camcorders

that recorded into a format called Digital Video. (DV for short). This was one

of the first all-digital formats for home video recording and was an outgrowth

of the consumer analog video recording market.

Because USB was not suitable for streaming video at that

time, DV cameras had FireWire (Sony called it i.LINK) outputs. Since Apple

helped develop the technology (It also became an IEEE standard, IEEE 1394) ,

most Macs at the time had FireWire ports allowing for easy importing of DV.

iMovie came along to make non-linear editing available as part of the iLife

suite (First released in October 1999!).

Technology has changed much in the last 20 or so years, and

Firewire ports are no longer de rigueur on Macs (and never was on PC’s), so

importing tapes from old DV camcorders is getting more difficult, and you had

better hurry up and do it since the hardware is evaporating quickly.

First off, the easiest way is to simply punt and send your

tapes to a service like LegacyBox. For a fee, they will transfer your tape to

either a DVD (another vanishing standard!) or a file that you can download or

receive via USB stick. Check around, there might also be a local service that

can do this. When I transferred some 8mm movies to DV tapes in the early

2000’s, I found a local service in Hollywood that did a good job.

But if you really want total control, you need to get

Firewire to your Mac.


One option – which seems to be popular on the FinalCut Apple

Community – is to get an old Mac that has a native FireWire port.


If you don’t have an older Mac, you will need a FireWire

Adapter. There may be some non-Apple FireWire adapters out there – OWC made a Thunderbolt

dock with a FireWire port – but they are few. Do NOT get a USB to FireWire

adapter. Those might work for FireWire disk drives (I don’t really know), but

they almost certainly will not work to stream DV.

For the Apple solution, first you need a Mac with a

ThunderBolt 1 or 2 (the little square port) or a TB 3 port. It must be

Thunderbolt, NOT USB-C.


Now the hard part. You also need to get the Apple FireWire

to Thunderbolt 1/2 adapter [MD464ZM]. These appear to be discontinued, so they

are in short supply. If you have TB1/2 on your computer, you are good to go,

just plug the adapter into your Mac. If you have TB3, you will need Apple’s

TB1/2 to TB3 adapter [MMEL2AM]. (These, at least, seem to still be available.)

Once you have a FireWire port on your Mac, you need to

connect your camcorder. Most camcorders use the 4 pin FireWire connector, so

you will need a FW800 9 pin connector to FW400 4 pin connector cable. If you

have another FW 400 peripheral – such as a disk drive – you may be able to

daisy chain that to use the more common FireWire 400 connector to the 4 pin

connector.

Before you can import, you may need to activate legacy

device support if you are using Sonoma or later:


If you can't use your camera or video output device after updating to macOS Sonoma 14.1 - Apple Support


Now that the camcorder is connected, you can use iMovie or

FinalCut to import the DV footage. Note that Adobe has removed DV import

functionality from their products.


If you really can’t get direct import of DV to work – and as

you can see there are a lot of links in the chain between the camera and a

final movie on the Mac – there are other options. There are numerous hardware

options, such as El Gato, that can take the analog video output from your

camcorder and capture it into a file. However, quality may suffer compared to a

direct DV import. Use S-Video if available.

After it is imported and edited – at the very least you

should put a title at the beginning with some basic who, what & where

information (Your grandchildren will thank you) – you can save it as you see

fit. A good export format would be H.264 in mp4. Apple Photos or AppleTV app

are two choices for applications that can help you organize your movies.

 


TL;DR


If you want to import DV directly onto your current Mac, do

it sooner rather than later, since the hardware and software are getting thin

on the ground.


There are other options.


iMac 24″, macOS 14.2

Posted on Feb 2, 2024 7:05 AM

Reply
Question marked as Top-ranking reply

Posted on Feb 2, 2024 7:41 AM

Keith - great summary; I know you have been working on this for a while.


Just a few minor suggestions --


"It must be Thunderbolt, NOT USB-C."

Thunderbolt 3 uses USB-C connectors, so this may be confusing. I suggest something like "It must be Thunderbolt, not just USB with a USB-C connector."


MD464ZM & MMEL2AM

When I look up these, I find both item numbers end with a "/A"


"Before you can import, you may need to activate legacy device support if you are using Sonoma or later:"

Suggest: "If you are using macOS Ventura you may need to upgrade to macOS Sonoma; and under macOS Sonoma you may also need to activate legacy device support."


"Note that Adobe has removed DV import functionality from their products."

I would specifically mention Premiere and put the sentence in parentheses like this: (Note that Adobe has removed DV import functionality from Premiere and their other video-related apps.)


"such as El Gato"

That product is Elgato Video Capture. I also suggest mentioning Vidbox. Those are the two more popular and reliable products in the market. The limitation with these products, however, is that they are fine if you just want to digitize video for playback, as they output MP4/H.264 video files; but that is not a good choice if you want to edit the converted video.


Similar questions

15 replies
Question marked as Top-ranking reply

Feb 2, 2024 7:41 AM in response to Keith Barkley

Keith - great summary; I know you have been working on this for a while.


Just a few minor suggestions --


"It must be Thunderbolt, NOT USB-C."

Thunderbolt 3 uses USB-C connectors, so this may be confusing. I suggest something like "It must be Thunderbolt, not just USB with a USB-C connector."


MD464ZM & MMEL2AM

When I look up these, I find both item numbers end with a "/A"


"Before you can import, you may need to activate legacy device support if you are using Sonoma or later:"

Suggest: "If you are using macOS Ventura you may need to upgrade to macOS Sonoma; and under macOS Sonoma you may also need to activate legacy device support."


"Note that Adobe has removed DV import functionality from their products."

I would specifically mention Premiere and put the sentence in parentheses like this: (Note that Adobe has removed DV import functionality from Premiere and their other video-related apps.)


"such as El Gato"

That product is Elgato Video Capture. I also suggest mentioning Vidbox. Those are the two more popular and reliable products in the market. The limitation with these products, however, is that they are fine if you just want to digitize video for playback, as they output MP4/H.264 video files; but that is not a good choice if you want to edit the converted video.


Feb 6, 2024 1:24 AM in response to Keith Barkley

There are following Model and part numbers for those adapters:


Apple Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) to Thunderbolt 2 Adapter. Model A1790, MMEL2ZM/A (box), MMEL2AM/A (Apple's website).


Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) to Thunderbolt 2 Adapter - Apple (AU)


Apple Thunderbolt to Firewire Adapter. Model A1463, MD464ZM/A (box), MD464LL/A (Apple's website).


Apple Thunderbolt to FireWire Adapter - Apple (AU)


Feb 2, 2024 7:49 AM in response to Keith Barkley

Keith Barkley wrote:

I felt that the "was" applied to de rigueur, so the sentence would be:

"Firewire ports are no longer de rigueur on Macs (and never was [de rigueur] on PC’s)"


The subject of the being "Firewire ports" - plural, I took the parenthetic part to mean


and [Firewire ports] were never [de rigueur] on PC's





I got the iMovie/iLife info from Wikipedia. But it appears it counts the start of iLife as the start of its first component, iMovie. I will incorporate your change.



I fondly remember trying iMovie 1 using a CD that a local representative was kind enough to send me - maybe in 2001. That was on a WallStreet Powerbook that I sill have in the basement - my first ever laptop. Ah! Nostalgia...


The summary at wikipedia does say 1999, but the main text at some point reads:


"iMovie remained free until 2003, when it became part of the first iLife release"




Feb 7, 2024 7:53 AM in response to Matti Haveri

Matti Haveri wrote:
BTW some iMovie versions had a bug that deinterlaced footage with a certain export workflow or lost the 16:9 flag in widescreen .dv.

FWIW, my recollection is that there was quite a furor at the time (around 2010?) but the answer I recall was that the DV import (captured video) itself was fine. The 'problem' (if there was one) was that iMovie & QT did not display one of the fields (I think it was the upper field) ... but both fields were actually there in the captured file(s).


The solutions (or workarounds) were twofold:

  • If using iMovie HD to capture DV video, when the capture finishes, drag the resulting clips out of the iMovie browser directly to the desktop (or other folder). Don't use Export to save the captured clips.
  • For QT7/QT10, set preferences to High Quality


Regardless, iMovie capture of DV was/is fine. Tom Wolsky would undoubtedly have a much better memory about it than I do; perhaps he will chime in.

Feb 2, 2024 7:20 AM in response to Keith Barkley

Keith, that is a great deal of good information.


Two very minor points:


1) a small gramatical thing


Firewire ports are no longer de rigueur on Macs (and never was on PC’s)


it should be "were" instead of "was"


2) I believe that iMovie 1 (which came out in 1999) pre-dates the existence of iLife. It seems that iLife, bundling several different applications, came only in 2003. Not a big deal to slighlly rephrase, though. Perhaps something like


iMovie (first released in October 1999!) came along to make non-linear editing available. It later became part of the iLife suite.



Feb 2, 2024 7:44 AM in response to MartinR

"Thunderbolt 3 uses USB-C connectors, so this may be confusing"

Indeed, it is confusing to me. My iMac 24 has 4 little oval connectors, but they don't all do the same thing!


In fact, when I first used my TB1 to TB3 adapter I plugged it into the USB-C port and the computer told me that I had used the wrong port! Argghhh!


You are correct about the part numbers, though the only place on the website I could find them was in the link, which does not include the /A!

Feb 6, 2024 11:35 PM in response to Keith Barkley

As MartinR said, for editing, either QuickTime DV or ProRes are the best choices.


The service should output at original resolution NTSC 720x480 or PAL 720x576, both interlaced so the client can deinterlace it as desired.


I exported and archived my old D8 tapes (and VHS digitized as .dv with Sony TRV320E) as max 9 min 27 sec .dv clips (that 2 GB was the max length in older iMovie versions). BTW some iMovie versions had a bug that deinterlaced footage with a certain export workflow or lost the 16:9 flag in widescreen .dv. Some export options produced DV-encoded .mov which should be the same, but with iMovie I used .dv export because I had a proven bug-free workflow for that.


Final Cut Pro 10.7.1, ffmpeg etc can handle those archived .dv clips fine.

Feb 5, 2024 8:29 PM in response to Keith Barkley

Just because, I just tried it out with Sonoma 14.2.1. It actually worked. There was some occasional glitches on import, but it was not viewable on playback.


I used iMovie 10.4, my Sony DV camcorder, a FW 4 wire to 8 Wire FW800 cable, a FW800->TB2 adapter and the TB2->TB3 adapter.


I thought I should try it out with my current setup since I have not tried this for a while.

Feb 6, 2024 5:14 PM in response to Keith Barkley

For editing, either QuickTime DV or ProRes are the best choices. They are both supported by iMovie, Final Cut, Adobe Premiere and Avid Media Composer. Davinci Resolve supports ProRes (and QT/DV if Final Cut is also installed).


QT/DV is actually an identical copy of the data from the miniDV tapes. ProRes is theoretically higher quality but you would of course be limited to the original DV quality.

Feb 7, 2024 11:39 AM in response to MartinR

Flash from the past -- some iMovie 4-6 issues and workarounds (old memo edited for brevity):


iMovie 4.0.1:

- Imported audio in .mov is converted from 48 kHz to 32 kHz

- iMovie 4.0.1's "QT Full Quality DV" preset exports PAL-DVCPRO instead of PAL-DV. iMovie can re-import such PAL-DVCPRO .dv file but added titles, transitions etc are badly distorted if they are added to a PAL-DVCPRO clip. It is also not possible to export PAL-DVCPRO to a consumer camcorder (only audio is exported).


iMovie HD 5-6:

- iMovie HD 5-6 Reversed Effect deinterlaces video when iMovie 4 correctly preserves interlacing by changing field dominance.

- Some transitions have interlace-related flicker or distortion in iMovie HD 5.0.2. The Overlap transition doesn't deinterlace the freeze frame like it should. If the freeze frame remains interlaced, then there is flicker or jitter when it is viewed on an interlaced TV.

- Transitions duplicate and drop frames in NTSC projects. The very first frame of a transition is duplicated and the very first frame after the transition is dropped causing jerky movement.

- iMovie 4-6 render jaggy still images when exporting to iDVD or tape. It obviously deinterlaces still images just by duplicating the fields when it renders them. This prevents flicker on a TV screen but the rendered still images are jaggy because vertical resolution is halved. Workaround #1 is to turn ON the Ken Burns Effect before importing an image or use Photo To Movie or Still Life. Workaround #2 is to ignore iMovie HD's rendering prompt when you send the project to tape or click the Create iDVD Project button.

- iMovie 5-6 exporting via the expert settings as a DV stream or .avi deinterlaces video and loses the timestamp. Workarounds: Export .dv via the Full Quality preset. Exporting as .dv (or DV-encoded .avi) via QuickTime Player Pro also preserves interlacing and timecode.

- iMovie HD 5-6 deinterlaces the video and loses the time stamp when pillarboxing or letterboxing. This happens when importing 4:3 material to a 16:9 DV Widescreen project (pillarboxing), or when importing 16:9 material to a 4:3 DV project (letterboxing) from a camcorder. A workaround is to set the High Quality flag (and no other playback quality flag) of the imported .dv file. THEN the interlacing is preserved.

- iMovie HD 5-6 Full Quality DV export preset doesn't set the 16:9 flag when exporting from a 16:9 project. Workaround: Re-export the .dv file via QuickTime Player Pro 7 and set its 16:9 flag.

- iMovie HD 6.0.3 extracts audio at 44.100 kHz instead 48.000 kHz.

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Beta User Tip for getting DV footage onto a current Mac

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