Sent MacBook Pro M1 Max 2021 with 2TB SSD's in for logic board replacement. They gave me a logic board with 1200 hours on the SSD's. They are telling me S.M.A.R.T. isn't supported. Is this true?

My 2021 MacBook Pro M1 Max started crashing every time on startup. Took it in and they said we need to replace the logic board. Spent hours on the phone, and they told me that I would have to pay to get it repaired. Was told that they would replace the logic board with new or like new parts. When I get it back, I check the SSD's S.M.A.R.T. status with DriveDX. It says it already has 1250+ hours on the SSDs, and 74.3 TB read and 81.2 TB written.


Take it back to the store, and the store tells me that you can't trust the 3rd party apps. They tell me to call customer service. I call Customer service. The first two people I speak with tell me that "That doesn't sound like new or like new to me." but that they couldn't do anything about it, that they need to send me to their senior advisor.


I get to the senior advisor, and he told me that he didn't think Macs used SMART anymore. He couldn't (or wouldn't) confirm or deny that the drives were compatible with SMART.


On my system info page, it reports the SMART status as "Verified".


What can I do? Is the information on DriveDX an accurate reflection of the usage? If so, is it acceptable for them to charge me $900 and give me SSD's with 1200 hours and 80TBs written on them?


Any feedback would be helpful. I am about to charge this back on my credit card....

Thanks,

Ken

MacBook Pro (2021)

Posted on Feb 7, 2024 4:17 PM

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Posted on Feb 9, 2024 8:17 PM

Apple SSDs don't have much SMART health information these days. I always look at the SMART information whenever I'm working on any of my organization's Macs just to keep an eye on them and see how they behave. I have noticed some odd variations in the "Spare Threshold" values on the 2016-2020 Intel Macs, but that is really insignificant. Plus sometimes it appears the value is shown in an inverse manner....should be something like 2%, but sometimes reported as 98%. More than likely those SSDs are from a different manufacturer (Apple procures components from at least two supplier for most items).


I've never seen anything that would suggest to me that the SMART information is inaccurate. I know there was some discussions when the M1 Macs were first released in 2020 about the high amounts of Writes being reported whether it was being misreported by the SSD, or the SMART monitoring software was misinterpreting the values, or whether they M1's were actually writing huge amounts of data (I think it came down to the way the GPU works and it was resolved with a macOS update). I haven't seen any other mention of issues regarding SMART on Apple Silicon Macs in the media.


In fact Apple's service diagnostics still check SMART. Plus on my 2023 M2 laptop even Disk Utility still has a "S.M.A.R.T. status:" item when you click on the physical SSD on the left pane of Disk Utility (the physical drives are now hidden by default).


While disappointing that you received an SSD with much more wear than your original Logic Board, as the others have noted it isn't really significant. But I definitely recommend people check the SMART information of their SSD before service and after service to make sure they are not too far off & to make sure the SSD isn't heavily used or having any problems (I had an integrated SSD fail on a 2017 MBPro within 90 days of an official Apple Logic Board replacement.....that was the one time I didn't check the SSD health after the repair --- the SSD had worn out due to excessive writes....no way that the user had written that much data within 90 days). More than likely the SSD controller will fail first (no health information for the controller) before you wear out the SSD. Back around 2012 a group performed a 24x7 torture test on a bunch of SSDs....most of them survived to write PBs of data before the SSD finally wore out.

https://techreport.com/review/the-ssd-endurance-experiment-theyre-all-dead/

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Question marked as Top-ranking reply

Feb 9, 2024 8:17 PM in response to MoDawg73

Apple SSDs don't have much SMART health information these days. I always look at the SMART information whenever I'm working on any of my organization's Macs just to keep an eye on them and see how they behave. I have noticed some odd variations in the "Spare Threshold" values on the 2016-2020 Intel Macs, but that is really insignificant. Plus sometimes it appears the value is shown in an inverse manner....should be something like 2%, but sometimes reported as 98%. More than likely those SSDs are from a different manufacturer (Apple procures components from at least two supplier for most items).


I've never seen anything that would suggest to me that the SMART information is inaccurate. I know there was some discussions when the M1 Macs were first released in 2020 about the high amounts of Writes being reported whether it was being misreported by the SSD, or the SMART monitoring software was misinterpreting the values, or whether they M1's were actually writing huge amounts of data (I think it came down to the way the GPU works and it was resolved with a macOS update). I haven't seen any other mention of issues regarding SMART on Apple Silicon Macs in the media.


In fact Apple's service diagnostics still check SMART. Plus on my 2023 M2 laptop even Disk Utility still has a "S.M.A.R.T. status:" item when you click on the physical SSD on the left pane of Disk Utility (the physical drives are now hidden by default).


While disappointing that you received an SSD with much more wear than your original Logic Board, as the others have noted it isn't really significant. But I definitely recommend people check the SMART information of their SSD before service and after service to make sure they are not too far off & to make sure the SSD isn't heavily used or having any problems (I had an integrated SSD fail on a 2017 MBPro within 90 days of an official Apple Logic Board replacement.....that was the one time I didn't check the SSD health after the repair --- the SSD had worn out due to excessive writes....no way that the user had written that much data within 90 days). More than likely the SSD controller will fail first (no health information for the controller) before you wear out the SSD. Back around 2012 a group performed a 24x7 torture test on a bunch of SSDs....most of them survived to write PBs of data before the SSD finally wore out.

https://techreport.com/review/the-ssd-endurance-experiment-theyre-all-dead/

Feb 7, 2024 6:11 PM in response to vmrx

As far as I know, SMART is supported and tools like DriveDx and Smartmontools can correctly read that data including the amount of data written and read from the NVME drives used in modern Macs.


80TB is probably 5-10% of the write resource of the drive, so you still have 90-95% of its resource available.


1200 hours is not a lot but it is clearly not fresh new drive.


For context on price see this comparable drive module offered by Apple (admittedly for Mac Pro):

Apple 2TB SSD Upgrade Kit


Feb 7, 2024 6:50 PM in response to MoDawg73

<< Was told that they would replace the logic board with new or like new parts. >>


Did you present a Mac for service that was new? That had only 5 hours of power-on time? I doubt it.


Apple warranty covers defects in materials or workmanship for the warranty period. Apple will repair or replace at it discretion to return your Mac to a properly working condition.


It does NOT state that the parts used will be new. It essentially says that your computer will be returned to working condition, such that is would be expected to work in a similar way at least through the rest of the warranty period.


What you got was your computer returned to serviceable condition with no defects. That is Apple's only obligation under warranty ro AppleCare PLUS.


If you like, you could request that the agent who gave you wrong information be re-trained.

Feb 8, 2024 6:37 AM in response to MoDawg73

Here is the language from the warranty. This is used for every repair regardless of who is paying for it.


WHAT WILL APPLE DO IN THE EVENT THE WARRANTY IS BREACHED?

If during the Warranty Period you submit a claim to Apple or an AASP in accordance with this warranty, Apple will, at its option:


(i) repair the Apple Product using new or previously used Apple genuine parts that have been tested and passed Apple functional requirements,


(ii) ...


The way I read that, Apple will provide parts "that FUNCTION as new'.

...That is not the same as "ARE New", or "could be sold as new".


ref:

Legal - Mac Warranty Us - Apple


Feb 8, 2024 6:29 AM in response to Grant Bennet-Alder

I guess I can understand your point, but that calls into question the value of the repair. If my original logic board died after 2 years and 1 month, and they replace it with a logic board that has been used for roughly 1-1.5 years, I wouldn't have thought $900 for that would be a good value.


While I can see your point, I can't think of anywhere else where I would be happy paying 1/4 off the cost of the original item for a part that has been used for a year.....


More importantly, if that is how they repair things, that should be stated from the beginning. Not hidden in the terms of service.


Fixed with 1 year old used parts......


Then at least it would be honorable and I could trust them.

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Sent MacBook Pro M1 Max 2021 with 2TB SSD's in for logic board replacement. They gave me a logic board with 1200 hours on the SSD's. They are telling me S.M.A.R.T. isn't supported. Is this true?

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