boot up from external drive on system running sonoma

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Level 1

22 points

boot up from external drive on system running sonoma

I have been trying to get a backup system running from an external drive as a safeguard. I want to return my MacBook Pro 14 inch 2023 to the Ventura it came to me with. I had no idea when I upgraded it to Sonoma that I would get a system that I can't use to do the kind of work I do. But I shouldn't vent.

Thinking that I could make a copy of Ventura on my old Mac that I fortunately did not upgrade, and then take that to the new computer and use it to boot the newer computer in the old system.

First, I couldn't get the external system I made with my old computer to work as a boot up drive. I thought I might just as well try it on the newer computer. I did not work, However, it did say that the HD system needed to be reinstalled. Sonoma was the only choice but somehow I got a bootable drive. It worked fitfully, and it was aways verifying the apps that I would try to use. I hoped that it would eventually get through checking that old apps were propery verified. Unfortunately my cat knocked the external monitor down and that was enough, although I do not understand why, to make the external drive fail.

I tried over and over again to get that HD to work as an external boot drive. I reinstalled, it would get to the point of almost booting, quit and rerun the startup process, fail at the last step, and start over. This would go on for several attempts, and the I would a message that I needed to reinstall the system.

I call Apple's tech help, and one person gave me a valuable clue. His materials said that a hard drive could not be plugged into one of the three identical-looking UBS-C outlets. I told him I wasn't using the forbidden socket, and he had no other suggestions for me.

I then went back to the older computer and started over again.

I tried Carbon Copy Cloner with permission to try for a systems file. The resultant copy would not even appear as a disk to try to use as the systems disk. Furthermore, it did not show up in the Disk Utility. No light was blinking on the external hard drive. It was then that I realized that I had plugged the external hard drive into a hub. That was the problem.

the older computer only has a couple of sockets, but I removed the hub and connected directly to the computer. I was then able to boot the computer from the external drive. It can't run programs at this point. It was spending lots of time verifying files such as X-code. Maybe I needed to use migration assistant to get them from the internal hard drive to the external hard drive.

I just rebooted, and it is verifying an app before showing the desktop.

I should have taken notes as I went along. It looks like I reinstalled the system over the system that was made using Carbon Copy Cloner, so I have the applications and other folders it made for me, but the systems documents it made must have been replaced.

It does some things, but right now it is terribly slow. I guess I'll let it run all night. Maybe it just needs to do some housekeeping.

MacBook Pro 13″, macOS 13.3

Posted on Jul 27, 2024 9:21 PM

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Answer 1

Top-ranking reply

HWTech

Community+ 2026

Level 9

69,974 points

Jul 28, 2024 12:16 PM in response to Spinthrift

You cannot use an external macOS boot drive (full OS) between Intel & M-series Macs. Only the macOS USB installer will work on both Intel & M-series Macs.

You can create a bootable macOS Ventura USB installer using the instructions in this Apple article:

Create a bootable installer for macOS - Apple Support

Bootable clones are a thing of the past with the M-series Macs. Sometimes people have gotten them to work, but you are taking risks doing so. Plus the M-series Macs have a new concept of "Ownership" which can make things tricky as well....especially with external macOS boot drives (full OS) so I'm not sure you can share an external macOS boot drive between different M-series Macs (perhaps if the "owner" is the same on each one).

Here is an article from the developer of CCC which explains things:

https://bombich.com/en/kb/ccc/6/frequently-asked-questions-about-ccc-and-macos-11

https://support.bombich.com/hc/en-us/articles/20686422131479-Creating-legacy-bootable-copies-of-macOS

Even erasing the disk for a clean install of macOS has changed with the M-series Macs. You cannot & should not erase the entire physical internal SSD because it contains system boot files which traditionally been a part of the system firmware. You can either erase the "Macintosh HD" volume which prompts you to also delete the "Volume Group" (yes delete the Volume Group). See this Apple article for details for using Disk Utility to properly erase the internal SSD of an M-series Mac:

Use Disk Utility to erase a Mac with Apple silicon - Apple Support

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Answer 2

kolyev

Level 1

13 points

Jul 30, 2024 9:07 PM in response to Spinthrift

To restore your MacBook Pro 2023 to the factory Ventura system, you can try the following steps:

Create a bootable Ventura installation disk: Download the Ventura installation file on the old Mac, and then use an empty external USB drive to create a bootable installation disk.
Back up your data: Make sure you have backed up your important data.
Start recovery mode: Insert the bootable installation disk on the new MacBook Pro, restart and hold down the Option key, and choose to boot from the USB drive.
Erase the hard drive: Use Disk Utility to erase the current system hard drive.
Reinstall Ventura: Select Reinstall macOS Ventura and follow the prompts to complete the installation.

If these steps still don't solve the problem, it is recommended to contact Apple's technical support for further assistance.

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Answer 3

Spinthrift Author

Level 1

22 points

Jul 30, 2024 5:47 PM in response to Spinthrift

After a lot of fruitless repetitions, I finally succeeded. It was only because I watched all of the log messages the next-to-last attempt I made that I found the problem.

I found that it is possible to see error messages while trying to install a system, then I found out that it is also possible to see every single message that would go into a log file. As the time got closer to the end of the process, I suddenly saw one login message that said the person trying to install the system would need to erase the HD. Then it did five or ten more steps, quit, and the screen went dark. There is no way to save one of these log files that I could find. But I had the clue I needed.

I used my older computer to erase the disk, but the fast way of doing that was how I had prepared the HD before, and it hadn't worked. So I looked for a way to write over old data with zeroes. but that can't be done with APFS disks, so I had to erase that disk, reformat it as the older kind of drive, and then I did a security run that writes a 0 to every address on the hard drive. I was surprised at how the drawl bar didn't seem to craw, and realized that a total of 8 terebytes of operations had to be made. I hoped that I could get back into the reboot process, but I had inadvertently removed the disk content that indicates that it is a system disk.

The only thing to do was to try to use CC-Coner. I got all the way through that, but mounting seemed to be going well until I got what was theoreticall a good system disk, but it went all the way through in trying to mount it and ended up with the usual message that the disk system needed to be reinstlalled. I let it start out, and it finall came to the place where it says that the new system will be ready in one minute. I knew that it would take several hours, instead of one minute. I left it running.

The next morning my computer showed the ordinary logon page. I was afraid it had failed on making a new system on an external hard drive and had instead reopened with the one that is internal to the computer. Howeber, I was wrong. It booted and immediately started verifying various apps. From time to time the screen would go blank for half an hour or so. It has taken the rest of the day to continue making refinements, but it looks like I have a system I can use as a backup if my plan to go back to Ventura works and I am able to get this computer to be useful to me again.

I'm putting this information here in case anyone else has to try to do the same thing.

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Answer 4

Spinthrift Author

Level 1

22 points

Jul 29, 2024 2:14 PM in response to HWTech

Short of selling my 2023 Mac, I want to get it back to the system it was shipped with. As insurance I want to be able to run Sonoma from an external drive.

Going back to may first run through, I made an external boot drive running Ventura for my 2017 Mac. I learned that it has to check out each application before it runs it. This takes time. Yesterday it was really slow. Today it seems to be o.k.

I bought a new external hard drive today and went through the same the same process. Somehow I had once gotten a bootable drive, but then it got corrupted. This time, as usually happened the first time around, I got all the way through reinstalling Sonoma. After a couple hours It put up a crawl bar that said, "One minute more." but it freezes up at this point.

I can rerun the system install a few time, but at about 3 hours per try that will take the rest of the day.

I know what SSB means, but what is SSD?

Thanks for your help.

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Answer 5

Owl-53

Level 10

103,861 points

Jul 31, 2024 1:44 AM in response to kolyev

kolyev wrote:

1. To restore your MacBook Pro 2023 to the factory Ventura system, you can try the following steps:

Create a bootable Ventura installation disk: Download the Ventura installation file on the old Mac, and then use an empty external USB drive to create a bootable installation disk.

2. Back up your data: Make sure you have backed up your important data.

3. Start recovery mode: Insert the bootable installation disk on the new MacBook Pro, restart and hold down the Option key, and choose to boot from the USB drive.

4. Erase the hard drive: Use Disk Utility to erase the current system hard drive.

5. Reinstall Ventura: Select Reinstall macOS Ventura and follow the prompts to complete the installation.

If these steps still don't solve the problem, it is recommended to contact Apple's technical support for further assistance.

This computer is an Apple Silicon Computer not a Intel Computer

The method suppled in above will work on Intel Computers

It will Not Work on M-Class Apple Silicon machines

In fact, using this method may Brick the machine

Not sure where one is getting this information but it appears somewhat outdated.

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Answer 6

Owl-53

Level 10

103,861 points

Jul 31, 2024 1:46 AM in response to Spinthrift

The Apple Support Community Forums are sometimes visited by AI / LMM / ChatBots.

AI / LLM are basically a Super Version of Predictive Text which is based upon a Data Set.

When that Data Set is based upon older data points, the outcome of the response will be equally out dated and / or unreliable

AI is also the newest form for Data Mining by Large Corporations.

Suggest being very careful about this.

Some suggestions can be incorrect, misinformed , incomplete, impossible to do, out right wrong .

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Answer 7

Spinthrift Author

Level 1

22 points

Jul 31, 2024 11:15 AM in response to kolyev

Are you sure? Judging by my own experience, and what others have read on this thread, what you suggest would potentially remove my copy of Ventura from my Time Machine, but it would not result in creation of a copy of Ventura on my internal hard drive.

At the beginning of this process I created a Ventura installation disk. I attached a clean external hard drive, and then ran the bootable installer drive. This operation was rejected with the notice that a computer running Sonoma cannot be given an earlier system. If Apple will not permit me to get a copy of Ventura from them on this computer because it is now running Sonoma, there is only one place I know of where I can get a copy without Apple's interference, and that is on my Time Machine.

So that is my take on this problem. If your take is different, please give me citations to Apple documents. Thank you.

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boot up from external drive on system running sonoma

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