User profile for user: Garth Algar (way)
Garth Algar (way) Author
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191 points

The ACTUAL problem with Mac Mini (and I've read macbooks too) and sloooww WiFi. Hint: It's not cable or app related...

(It's been years since I've been on this forum, so forgive me if I breech more modern protocol in some fashion.)


I recently bought a Mac Mini M2 basic and didn't mess with it for a long time. Long story. So I hook it up and it works as you'd expect Apple devices to work, powers on, updates, etc.. I was surfing with it connected to a 4k TV set through the ARC2 HDMI cable, and was just getting to know Sonoma (been years!).. I was considering the display, and what to buy next, so I was messing around a lot with the browser and TV, trying 4k videos on YouTube and in the browser, to see if using a big screen was viable, all that. For a while, I didn't notice the lack of internet speed, and I don't have a super fast provider anyway, about 50MBps tops, but after a while I start noticing Safari and Firefox becoming quite unusable.


So I internet search the forums, Reddit posts, trying to ignore the minutiae of trivial arguments and "probably unrelated" solutions to the problem. I pick out a few of the "answers" and do them. Went into settings and tried what some say "fixed" their issues with slow WiFi, under WiFi settings. Read the Apple "set up your router like this" stuff. Deleted the freshly downloaded browser extensions that make the freaking internet a place you can even use for 5 min. in today's world of ads who make this stuff to annoy us all to death with, and having done ALL of these things......


The issue persists. I was getting LESS THAN 1Mbps, down in the Kbps ranges, while my Win 11 $200 work PC was getting 39Mbps on FAST.COM


So I thought, it's "interference" as SOOOO many posts here are lost in the weeds of interference as the root cause of this debacle. So I move the laptop right next to the Mac, and it's still apples vs. oranges in speed. Clearly, this isn't due to the position in the room.


At this point i remember a couple of posts that went mostly ignored about the HDMI cables being the cause, so I start messing around with them, (which began by me moving the mini (connected) closer to the router, and seeing the FAST.com test jumping around. So I pulled on that thread and wiggled the connections, etc. It seem to make some difference! I couldn't believe that! Why? Why would that matter to a WiFi card soldered to a motherboard?


At this point, there was a logical "next step". I put the laptop again, right beside the mini. I unplugged and re-plugged the HDMI from both devices (freshen the connection). I ran the tests again, 1/2 overlapping so that bandwidth bottlenecks wouldn't be a big factor. With the fresh connection, the mini put up "usable" 10-12 Mbps, but the notebook was at 42.


Next, I started the FAST.COM tests simultaneously, but as soon as I hit "start" on the Mini (tv display), I disconnected the HDMI from the Mac Mini !


After all, it will still run the test, and I had a suspicion now....that this was the problem. I wait long enough for the packets test to complete, plug in the display (hdmi), and BOOM, 43Mbps ! I couldn't believe it. How crazy is that?


This is a Power delivery hardware issue! (imho)


I'd already read this same post(s) of issues on MBP's and how one person said the issue was "fixed" when closing the MBP and using a 2nd screen via USBC.


I mean, it doesn't make a lot of sense, really, but there must be some sort of shared power issue between the WiFi circuitry (power delivery) and the HDMI or USBC ports in affected machines, that has to do with power demands of each component. I don't know how, but it has to be that. Disconnecting the display boosts the WiFi hardware's ability to connect and just function, far too instantaneously, to be anything else than that.


I hear people talking about frequency interference, and if this were an issue of a few Mbps, or intermittent "noise" or added bandwidth like loading, I would maybe go along with that explanation. But this is so clearly night and day, that it's without doubt, hardware related.


So what now? Anyone got a good suggestion?


[Edited by Moderator]

Posted on Aug 6, 2024 2:58 AM

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User profile for user: Garth Algar (way)
Garth Algar (way) Author
User level: Level 2
191 points

Posted on Aug 6, 2024 7:09 AM

Update: Toggling Bluetooth ON/OFF,.....also affects wireless connection speed. I just verified this 3X in a row!


I got to thinking that all of what we used to know as "cards" in a multi-card computer, were sharing power, and if I turned one of them OFF, then I'd see improved performance of the WiFi due to.....more power to that "card" or circuit, and sure enough, it's just like that apparently.


I get 8.5-9.0 Mbps with the Bluetooth toggled to "OFF" and about 4.5 Mbps, with it toggled "ON". That makes sense, as Bluetooth was always a low power draw in a PC, or at least lower than other components that are/were connected to the board. But each time I do the FAST.COM speed test with Bluetooth first in the OFF position, and then toggle it on and immediately hit the speed test again, it repeats the WiFi slowed result of 4.5Mbps, vs. 8Mbps.....wow. After BT has been on for a few minutes, this difference is less, because it isn't "powering on" like it is when first toggled "ON", and isn't devoting power to "searching" for a connection, is it?


I was going to try and turn the "performance" to "HIGH", in the System Settings>Power menu, but Sonoma apparently doesn't give me that option?


Feel free to chime in guys with your own testing and results. I'd really like to know if this is repeatable for others.

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User profile for user: Garth Algar (way)
Garth Algar (way) Author
User level: Level 2
191 points

Aug 6, 2024 7:09 AM in response to Garth Algar (way)

Update: Toggling Bluetooth ON/OFF,.....also affects wireless connection speed. I just verified this 3X in a row!


I got to thinking that all of what we used to know as "cards" in a multi-card computer, were sharing power, and if I turned one of them OFF, then I'd see improved performance of the WiFi due to.....more power to that "card" or circuit, and sure enough, it's just like that apparently.


I get 8.5-9.0 Mbps with the Bluetooth toggled to "OFF" and about 4.5 Mbps, with it toggled "ON". That makes sense, as Bluetooth was always a low power draw in a PC, or at least lower than other components that are/were connected to the board. But each time I do the FAST.COM speed test with Bluetooth first in the OFF position, and then toggle it on and immediately hit the speed test again, it repeats the WiFi slowed result of 4.5Mbps, vs. 8Mbps.....wow. After BT has been on for a few minutes, this difference is less, because it isn't "powering on" like it is when first toggled "ON", and isn't devoting power to "searching" for a connection, is it?


I was going to try and turn the "performance" to "HIGH", in the System Settings>Power menu, but Sonoma apparently doesn't give me that option?


Feel free to chime in guys with your own testing and results. I'd really like to know if this is repeatable for others.

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User profile for user: den.thed
den.thed
User level: Level 10
92,764 points

Aug 7, 2024 7:07 AM in response to Garth Algar (way)

Garth Algar (way) wrote:

1.). What reason do you think makes the likelihood of interference more likely than a power reduction issue? I find it difficult to believe that interference in Mhz, whatever, would cause enough noise for a reduction this drastic. And also, why did my Bluetooth toggle exercise also reduce performance by an amount that would be analogous to a power reduction of the magnitude that BT draws in comparison to a computer driving a 4k display? In other words, the 4k demand is much greater on power than BT. Why did the test result in isolation yield a performance hit comparable to power reduction of each?

And surely, Mac Mini is designed with hardware shielding in anticipation of overlaps of MHz or ghz?

I’m not saying you are absolutely wrong…. I’m curious as to why you think that a more likely explanation? Based on what? And why didn’t BT impact it more? It’s a wireless frequency generated by the machine itself.

Based on year of experience using the Mac mini's.

2.). You suggest moving the machine and router closer, but as I’ve mentioned already, I tested that location with a PC laptop and found 42Mbps right beside, above, all around the Mini’s location.

For the sake of this effort, I will try what you say and report back to this post in the next day or two if not sooner (working). But don’t get your hopes up, mate. I’m pretty convinced it’s related to the link up of all the physical ports on the machine and how the power is “wired in” and managed by everything.

The BIG question is…. How many of these macs are doing similarly to this one? I see this issue all over the internet, about dropping wireless on new macs, since M1 machines came out.

The Mac mini's antenna is built into the bottom cover, which puts it at a disadvantage compared to other computers and hand held devices.

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User profile for user: VikingOSX
VikingOSX
User level: Level 10
124,310 points

Aug 7, 2024 9:27 AM in response to Garth Algar (way)

I am sitting here in front of an M2 Mac Mini Pro running Sonoma 14.6. It uses a Wi-Fi 6 connection to my fully updated Synology RT6600ax router (6 antennae) that is 20 feet away behind a wall (drywall). The mini is on its side with the bottom facing the router. My iPhone 15 Pro Max connected to the same router is 4 feet away from the mini.


What I observe at this moment is a Wi-Fi 6 5GHz, 80MHz signal on channel 132 delivering 900 Mbps. This may momentarily drop to 200 Mbps, then regain the 900 Mbps (or faster). So, the best you can hope for is an average connection speed of the lows and highs. My cable modem is a Motorola MB8611 2.5 Gbit device receiving around 300 Mbps from the cable vendor delivered via Cat 5E or 7 to the router. There is also a StarTech 5-port 2.5 Gbit switch directing cable traffic to/from the router.


I also have a Netgear NightHawk M6 Pro Hotspot (MR6550) for power outages that has the same 5G cellular radio as the iPhone 15 Pro Max and can deliver Wi-Fi 6 or Wi-Fi 6E signals. When I connect the mini to this hotspot using Wi-Fi 6E, I will see peaks of 2700 Mbps and lows around 1200 Mbps with anywhere from 1 to 3 bars of Cellular signal out to the one-mile distant T-Mobile cellular tower.


So, regardless of the Wi-Fi signal type and source, the M2 Mac Mini Pro will vary in WI-Fi delivery and the best you can hope for is a productive average bandwidth. I use premium network equipment here and can do nothing more about this Broadband modem deviation.

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User profile for user: Garth Algar (way)
Garth Algar (way) Author
User level: Level 2
191 points

Aug 6, 2024 10:04 PM in response to den.thed

1.). What reason do you think makes the likelihood of interference more likely than a power reduction issue? I find it difficult to believe that interference in Mhz, whatever, would cause enough noise for a reduction this drastic. And also, why did my Bluetooth toggle exercise also reduce performance by an amount that would be analogous to a power reduction of the magnitude that BT draws in comparison to a computer driving a 4k display? In other words, the 4k demand is much greater on power than BT. Why did the test result in isolation yield a performance hit comparable to power reduction of each?


And surely, Mac Mini is designed with hardware shielding in anticipation of overlaps of MHz or ghz?


I’m not saying you are absolutely wrong…. I’m curious as to why you think that a more likely explanation? Based on what? And why didn’t BT impact it more? It’s a wireless frequency generated by the machine itself.


2.). You suggest moving the machine and router closer, but as I’ve mentioned already, I tested that location with a PC laptop and found 42Mbps right beside, above, all around the Mini’s location.


For the sake of this effort, I will try what you say and report back to this post in the next day or two if not sooner (working). But don’t get your hopes up, mate. I’m pretty convinced it’s related to the link up of all the physical ports on the machine and how the power is “wired in” and managed by everything.


The BIG question is…. How many of these macs are doing similarly to this one? I see this issue all over the internet, about dropping wireless on new macs, since M1 machines came out.

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The ACTUAL problem with Mac Mini (and I've read macbooks too) and sloooww WiFi. Hint: It's not cable or app related...

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