USB is still problematic, I have problems with mouse, screen, drive, hub and so on.

This has been a never ending problem with USB devices. I just got worse with 14.6.1 yet again and now my drives disconnect randomly during the day and my notification bar goes all the way down the screen with "Disk Not Ejected Properly". My mouse using disconnects when I leave the room and come back (which I have no explanation for as well) Many times my computer doesn't connect to the Hub in the morning and randomly disconnects. I have had major issues with all USB audio devices as well. This is just a mess and not getting any better in recent OSs. I don't have the same problem plugging either my ubuntu or windows devices into the same dock (TB3.) I have two 4K ASUS panels, several USB audio devices Jabra, Dilpoetry, fifine, u-phoria, I have a KVM and ptonoi drive bay, a logitech and a microsoft camera. None of these are anything special so no special drivers required. It feels like the USB drivers are getting worse and worse with each OS release. I had less problems with my intel MBP than with this M2 one. I am not quite sure where to look, because the error log no longer persists so I can't easily look back.


MacBook Pro 14″, macOS 14.6

Posted on Sep 18, 2024 12:55 AM

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Posted on Sep 18, 2024 3:43 AM

I am sorry that you are having such a bad experience.

If your terrible experience were common, we'd have heard an outcry.

Some issues, probably not so impactful on usability as yours, have resulted in threads here with dozens of pages and hundreds of posts. One would expect that severe failure with USB, if prevalent, would cause a lot of people to post and complain, and that has not happened.


Thus it seems more likely to be a local problem. Maybe the USB subsystem in your Mac has a fault, maybe it is your hub, and maybe it is software.


If you decide to post an Etrecheck report, as suggested, I will take a look, and perhaps others too, and maybe we can find something.


Also: if you can test by connecting devices directly to your mac, or using a different hub, it may help narrowing it down. By your description my first suspect would be your hub.


If you are attaching drives to your hub and they fail, it usually indicates a power problem. You should not attach hard drives to an unpowered hub, as the USB ports on the hub may not give out enough juice to power the drive. A powered USB hub, or connecting the drive directly to your mac, would be preferable (you may need a small USB-C to USB-A adapter if your drive only has a USB-A connection, but that is fine).


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Sep 18, 2024 3:43 AM in response to richtera

I am sorry that you are having such a bad experience.

If your terrible experience were common, we'd have heard an outcry.

Some issues, probably not so impactful on usability as yours, have resulted in threads here with dozens of pages and hundreds of posts. One would expect that severe failure with USB, if prevalent, would cause a lot of people to post and complain, and that has not happened.


Thus it seems more likely to be a local problem. Maybe the USB subsystem in your Mac has a fault, maybe it is your hub, and maybe it is software.


If you decide to post an Etrecheck report, as suggested, I will take a look, and perhaps others too, and maybe we can find something.


Also: if you can test by connecting devices directly to your mac, or using a different hub, it may help narrowing it down. By your description my first suspect would be your hub.


If you are attaching drives to your hub and they fail, it usually indicates a power problem. You should not attach hard drives to an unpowered hub, as the USB ports on the hub may not give out enough juice to power the drive. A powered USB hub, or connecting the drive directly to your mac, would be preferable (you may need a small USB-C to USB-A adapter if your drive only has a USB-A connection, but that is fine).


Sep 18, 2024 10:13 AM in response to richtera

Thank you for the report.


A few things that stand out rather quickly:


1) Your system drive and your external drive are very full. Each has way less than 10% free, and this is a problem, especially with the system drive. Unfortunately, the OS does not immediately turn the "available" space free, so although it says 160GB "available", and 70GB "free", those extra 90GB are system discretion.


As a general rule, strive to have system drives with at least 15-20% free, and other drives at least 10-15% free.


2) There are a lot of system and kernel extensions present, and some of the software was installed in 2017 or 2018, which indicates that a system migration from an old mac or perhaps more was done. While this is extremely convenient, doing this over a long time can result in old stuff being accumulated. In this case, it is not just transitioning from a mac to another and an OS to another (or multiple versions), it is also from a different architecture (Intel vs Apple Silicon).

That is why it is usually recommended, when moving to another mac, to migrate ONLY the user accounts, and install software fresh.


3) Among your hubs there is a mention of USB2. Having a USB2 device on a bus can slow down everything else on the same bus, even if the other devices can support USB3.


Sep 19, 2024 2:43 AM in response to richtera

Maybe not all accessories were disabled, but probably only one that was using a lot of power.

There is only a limited power out from USB port on your mac, and if you use an unpowered hub with several devices connected to it, that all adds up and may be more than the port can provide, resulting in the situation you are facing.


If I am right, then waiting for a software update to fix what is not broken is futile.

You would need either to get a self-powered hub, distribute the devices between different USB ports on your mac (there are three, I think), or both. In particular, hard drives need a significant amount of power, and failures like this could lead to data loss.


Also, CalDigit is a brand with good reputation, but there is an off chance you may have gotten a hub that is somehow defective.

Sep 19, 2024 4:49 AM in response to richtera

Thank you, so presumably the CalDigit dock has its own power, which is good.


At this point, it would be great if you had the option to test with a different dock, but I understand that this is not easy (unless you have a friend nearby that can lend you one to test).


One thing that you can do is connect at least some of the USB devices directly to your mac (using only a passive and inexpensive adapter) and see how this affects (or does not affect) the issue at hand.


To clarify, I mean one of these adapters that has a male USB-C plug and a female USB-A on the other end:


Oct 15, 2024 6:08 AM in response to w9068

So I just upgraded to a TS4 and one of my USB hubs no longer connects at all, it's the same usb hub which was previously flaky. I think USB2 buses connected further down the USB tree are either flaky or no longer work at all. Just because the root of my tree is not thunderbolt prevents the third level of USB working at all. It works fine on windows or Ubuntu. I think the apple USB drivers are starting to ignore or fully handle USB further down. If they change this one more level I will no longer be able to use MacOs with my setup since the USB2.0 hub inside of my KVM is two levels down and the last one working (I.e USB hubs connected there no longer connect)

Sep 18, 2024 2:38 AM in response to richtera

There could be a hardware problem with your USB subsystem, and there could be software issues, not necessarily with system - it could be that you have third party software modifications causing problems, we just don't know. FWIW, you symptoms are serious but fortunately not common, which suggests there may be specific local causes.


If we are to troubleshoot further, we need more information. Please run Etrecheck and post its full report here. Use the "additional text" button and paste the report into the text box.

Sep 18, 2024 6:11 AM in response to richtera

richtera wrote:

Ok, I have been unsuccessful to get help from apple, because I cannot take all the affected devices and set it up for them to check. It's been kind of a problem. All I can say is that it's getting worse and my ubuntu and windows laptops connected to the same dock have no problems. So I agree it's kind of a flaky report, sorry. I will mess around with it a bit more, but on every OS upgrade more things go wrong.

Well, you won’t trust one of the tools we use here, and you shouldn’t trust anything on the internet including us. You’ll have decide whether an unfounded distrust is more important than fixing your problems. I don’t know if EtreCheck will tell us anything, but there isn’t much else besides talking to Apple.

Docks are notoriously flakey on Macs. I don’t know whether it is Apple or the dock manufacturer, but there are docks that work and many docks that don’t.

I have two I use on Sonoma and now Sequoia that don’t not cause any problems. When I bought them many years ago, I spent quite a bit of time researching to find one that didn’t seem to be problematic on macOS. I use a Hyper Drive dock on my MacBook Pro M2, and I think the one at home is an Avia dongle. Not sure of the name. The dongle is about four years old, and the Hyper Drive is much older.

Oct 22, 2024 5:25 AM in response to richtera

So the thunderbot 4 version is actually called TS4, but with this one the problem is that USB2 hubs further down in the tree don't seem to be supported by MacOS anymore. It looks like I will need to switch to windows soon :(. I can plugin my keyboard to a composite USB1 device but it doesn't work very well there and a lot of keystrokes are missed. Here is a pict of the USB2 hub which no longer works. It works fine in Ubuntu or Windows, but no longer in the latest MacOS. I.e. the hub shows up, but devices plugged into it, power up but don't connect. (NOTE: The USB2 hub one level up is a KVM, so mouse and keyboard must be plugged in below it otherwise they are not connected to my other computing devices)

Sep 23, 2024 1:25 AM in response to richtera

Sequoia is definitely better, but this morning my video and audio devices did not properly work, when unplugging and re-plugging in the video it re-negotiated everything and disconnected 1/2 of my audio so that audio in was working and audio out was not working. Quitting and restarting the discord app fixed this. Early morning one of my screens also didn't work until I powered it down and powered it back up. So definitely a lot better, but there is still a bit of flakyness.

Sep 24, 2024 6:23 AM in response to richtera

Ok so Sequoia is a lot better and things are behaving better. But I think the display drivers are broken. When I connect in the morning it only negotiates one of my screens until I power off and on the other device that didn't get detected. It happened several times already. I also had similar problems with one of my video devices where the camera suddenly migrated to my iphone even though the camera is plugged in. Unplugging and re-plugging the camera kind of works, but destroys audio until you quit and restart the app using audio.

Sep 18, 2024 3:25 AM in response to Luis Sequeira1

Are you sure, I have had nothing but problems since I got this M2 upgrade from an Intel MBP. I had some problems with USB on intel but nothing comparable to the problem I have on this M2. Hmmm, since I don't really have any custom USB drivers, I am not quite sure what kind of software could cause disconnect and re-sync of USB. I can see the lights turn off and on on my USB hub device. Maybe it's some kind of timeout when the system is busy, but it got incredibly worse within the last 14.6.1 release, before I had audio USB problems, but the device would never lose connections with my drives. This is something new; it feels like USB problems are more and more prevalent. I have been using Mac OS since 1987 and something is getting worse in relation to USE within the last two OS releases.

Sep 18, 2024 4:32 AM in response to richtera

Ok, I have been unsuccessful to get help from apple, because I cannot take all the affected devices and set it up for them to check. It's been kind of a problem. All I can say is that it's getting worse and my ubuntu and windows laptops connected to the same dock have no problems. So I agree it's kind of a flaky report, sorry. I will mess around with it a bit more, but on every OS upgrade more things go wrong.

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USB is still problematic, I have problems with mouse, screen, drive, hub and so on.

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