MacBook Pro M4 with thunderbolt 5 and portable monitor

Same problem, though it DOES work if you use a usb c display hub in between the portable monitor and the thunderbolt 5 ports. No power passthrough needed.

I Have access to both a M4 pro Mac mini and an M4 Mac mini. It works perfectly without the hub on the M4 Mac mini. It doesn’t work on the M4 Pro at all unless I throw the hub in between.

The person that said don’t get distracted by thunderbolt five and that it wasn’t the issue, ngl rn it looks like 5 is the issue.

the hub I used is this one off amazon

https://a.co/d/gH16MI0

I think I know the answer.

I just heard back the from the support people at MNN, which makes the portable monitor that I have been using successfully without an auxiliary adapter power on my 2019 MacBookPro with Thunderbolt 3 ports and yet cannot make work on my brand spanking new MacBookPro M4 Pro Thunderbolt 5 machine.

I asked point blank this question: Does your monitor work with Thunderbolt 5 ports using only one USB-C or Thunderbolt cable and no auxiliary power adapter?

Answer: No. The monitor is not compatible with TB5 ports. It will need an auxiliary power source (adapter) and also an HDMI cable. And even when using the auxiliary power adapter the monitor won't recognize a signal through its USB-C ports if the signal is coming from a Thunderbolt 5 port.

And so now I am using the power adaptor that came with the monitor, an HDMI cable going from the MB M4 TB5 port to the monitor, and everything is working. But obviously, this defeats the whole purpose of a portable monitor.

And so folks, it looks like we will need to wait for the portable monitor manufacturers to start making portable monitors that work with Thunderbolt 5 ports.

Maddening and super disappointing. Especially since you can't even know whether a new monitor will work because the specs don't address this issue.

Hello, I had the same issue and the same answer from Apple Support by phone and technicall service directly on the store, nobody who works there knows anything.

I have a M4 pro Max and couldn´t make my portable monitor work (it is thuntherbolt 3 and 4) with only one cable from my macbook, (like i used to do it with my intel and M1 macbook). I tried buying different cables and hubs, but the only thing that worked was to connect the monitor direclty to the AC and then the powered monitor with only one cable to my Macbook. Thats the definitive solution.

I even make it work with 3 external monitors, 2 monitor connected directly to the AC and then each monitor with one cable to my macbok. the 3th monitor worked with a HDMI cable.

As far as I undestand, apple is trying to protect the battery of the macbook by not transmiting power though their port tunberbolt5 port, only receiving. My macbook is even charging from the monitor USB contection.

Hope this can be usefull for all who is having this problem.

Hello all,

I just had a 3rd call with Apple tier 2 (3?) support. Engineering requested additional diagnostic data capture form my M1 MacBook Air, as well as photos/video of the cable, display, and a side by side comparison of the display being plugged in and working on the M1, and failing to detect on the M4 Pro.

I did a video of the display in every combination of USB-C ports on both laptops, it works in every combination on the M1, does not work in every combination on the M4 Pro, and apple engineering now has diagnostic data collected while the device is being plugged into both.

What engineering has said from the data collected - on the M4 Pro it detects as power only and no display device is found.

No guarantee I get a "real" update after this, but the support rep said she will reach back out if she hears back from engineering - was a 2 day turnaround last time.

The support rep did indicate they do not really monitor these community supports groups, I did reference this thread, but for this to get traction, people need to actually submit a case and jump through the hoops like I did. YMMV

https://youtu.be/qT21TXzKD0c

USB-C DisplayPort Alt Mode Troubleshooting with M4 Pro

I have the m4 pro MacBook Pro. Had the same issue as you describe when connecting my espresso 17inch pro portable display. Screen didn’t work until you connect a power source to the display. Upon contacting espresso display customer service they told me the problem was due to software comparability with the new usb c ports (tb5) in the Mac’s. They are flashing their displays with new firmware which solves the problem. Mine was not flashed before it was delivered. I think because it came from their depot in the eu (it was delivered in a couple of days) and not directly from the manufacturer. Because I recently bought my display (one with old firmware) they send me a replacement one which was flashed for the new Mac USB c ports( took a coole of weeks to arrive) And the new display works fine now. This shows that the problem is a software one. That a company as espresso display managed to solve the problem in a couple of weeks after the new MacBook pro’s came on the market and with the right firmware it works perfectly. I think that Apple should react as quick and decisive to solve this problem for their users. As this example proves that the problem is easily corrected with a software update if the MacBook and a new display port should be reverse compatible. So I think we all should make some noise so Apple resolves this problem asap.

I'm pretty sure it's not a matter of port power issue. It's a protocol issue.

These monitors are probably made with an older or draft protocol, and they became incompatible after USB4 hit. USB4-Capable devices have issues plugging these displays, and a firmware update (on the display) seems to do the trick. Issue is, most brands (mine's Arzopa) doesn't care at all about this, and will just instruct you to use HDMI.

I wrote a solution on this thread few days ago, but the way Apple presents their forums is pretty odd, and even I couldn't find my reply. Replies are ordered in "ranks", so sometimes I'm reading a reply from a year ago, then the following reply is from yesterday, then the next is from a month ago, without anything making any sense... It's a mess!

Sort by Oldest (so the newer messages are on the last page, like in any civilized community lol) and read from there on, to get the newest developments on this matter.

But the "solution" was that, if you want to "single-cable" it, connect it to an USB-C hub with HDMI and USB-A output. Then plug a USB-A to USB-C cable from the hub to the display, and an HDMI cable from the hub to the display.

This way you'll not only power the display with a single USB-C port from your mac, but will also power the USB-C hub and waste power on it, given it heats up a lot, because most likely DisplayPort to HDMI conversion requires an active converter! Fun times.

So, yeah, your TB5 USB-C port would probably be able to single-handledly power it (and probably, easily). However, they're not communicating correctly, and your Mac port (or any USB4-Capable device, for that matter) won't understand that it's a display.

Older, non-USB4-capable devices, will work because they're most likely still using the old protocol, or the way these displays signal their functions isn't interpreted wrong.

So, the least expensive yet featured portable dock that doesn't increase the output cables of MBP and input cables to portable display that worked with my M4 Pro MBP was the one below. It was on sale when I bought it (~$39ish), but it's imperative the dock you get have a USB-C port designated for Video output - it has to say this explicitly, not any USB-C, no matter then Gen, will output video signal. More formally, the USB-C port on dock needs to have DP-Alt mode.

So, I plug the magsafe power cable into the MBP, then I connect the dock to one of the MBP's TB5 ports. Then I connect a 10Gbps or greater USB-C video/data cable from the portable display to the dock's USB-C Video port. Viola! The dock doesn't need a power adapter connected to it, it pulls enough from the MBP. This is similar to ToddGeorgeKelly's comment - having a dock in the middle "solves" the problem. But this works well for me, no issues.

So that's still one cable into the monitor and one from the MBP, if you consider the dock block a "cable". You can also use the dock's PD input for power; there is a Magsafe -> USB-C adapter in the wild, but I won't vet that.

Not as clean as a single, continuous cable from MBP to display, but still effectively one "cable" if you consider the dock part of the cable, and seeing that only one port is used on both the monitor and the MBP.

The dock (~$50): Inateck HDMI Docking Station 4K 60Hz, USB C Video+Data, 100W PD,10 in 1 USB 3.2 Type C Hub, 2 USB 3.0 A, RJ45 Ethernet, 1.6ft Cable, for Windows 7/10/11, Linux, MacOS 10.2, HB2030

The portable display (doesn't exist on Amazon anymore as a link, but it was only last year so maybe it changed name): CNBANAN 2K Portable Monitor, 14" Portable Screen IPS 2140x1440 QHD USB-C&HDMI 100% Adobe RGB Laptop Monitor Extender 1500:1 FreeSync Ultra Slim Extern

But, this is still not optimal, but a sensible work around if you don't want to buy another monitor.

Oddly enough, this monitor below worked when connected directly to my M4 Pro MBP, and it's older than the one I mentioned above, but it's too dim and the aspect ratio doesn't match my MBP. No clue why. Maybe required less power, who knows: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09BB5T7FV/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I'm not a Mac owner, but I also suffer the same issue on my Windows machine (Lenovo Yoga Slim 7x - Snapdragon X Elite ARM64).

I found this thread on Google, while researching for this issue.

I believe there's a problem with how these displays communicates with the host device. It's probably not following proper handshaking rules. My display's an Arzopa Z1FC.

It seems to affect USB4-Capable devices. Other devices that aren't officially USB4 capable seems to work.

One example I know is that it works fine with the ROG Ally (which isn't USB4 capable), but doesn't work with the ROG Ally X (which is USB4 capable).

The most notable thing is that when you connect the Arzopa display to the computer, it'll just detect it as an USB 3.1 Hub, and nothing more.

However, if you power the display first (either by using an USB-A to USB-C cable connected to your computer, or using an USB-C charger) and then connect the USB-C cable, the display will properly work.

If you mix that order (plug the display first and then supply power to the display), it'll just slowly (25W max) charge your device.

Unfortunately, you'll always need to use two cables to this portable monitor - one for power, other for video output - if this display doesn't properly communicate with your computer.

The only way I found to have "a single cable" was to buy a cheap USB-C hub with HDMI out and USB-A out, and use that USB-A to power the display and the HDMI out to send signal to the display. It kinda screws the portability, but it's a way to have it on a single cable again.

Hope that helps for the time being. Unfortunately, I think that's a matter of these brands figuring their stuff out and possibly sending a firmware update... Idk.

Good news!

the latest version of Mac OS appears to fix the issue.

arzopa portable monitor now finally fully working with one USB c cable attached to m4 Pro Mac mini!!

[Edited by Moderator]

<<. Tell my why my MacBook Pro just won’t power the monitor. It registers for a little second then it disconnects after 9 seconds having the monitor plugged in through the type-c connector. >>

Most users with this issue are using cables that are too long, or are not hi-spec (not necessarily hi-priced) cables.

USB-Cables for this use should have the USB SuperSpeed PLUS logo or the 10 G Bits/sec or 20 G bits/sec logon (or higher) on each end. Ordinary charging-only cables are not good enough.

In addition, the data rates are approaching the limits of switching times for this family of digital logic, and cables over ONE METER experience signal degradation, and the display kicks out.

I already had that hub, I have 15 different thunderbolt cables of varying lengths, I have about 12 USB-C cables, capable of delivering display signals, also varying lengths, I have tested every single one of them and nothing works, and the one factor involved that seems to make the difference is that it is a thunderbolt five port.

every single one of my cables works with thunderbolt four on the M4 Mac mini. But again, as has been said, not a single of my 27 cables works when using the thunderbolt five ports on the M4 Pro Mac mini.

Thanks for your armchair input, but I think I will stick with hard results from my actual tests.

Though I cannot conclusively say that it is SPECIFICALLY because of thunderbolt five, I think we can all agree that something about the thunderbolt five models of the M4 Macs seem to have an issue connect connecting to portable displays and delivering signal.

Could this be a software issue? Maybe. maybe it’s a firmware thing that just needs an update. Could it be something else? Sure. But as of right now, based on every piece of evidence presented, it seems like Macs with thunderbolt five are not able to deliver a display signal along with the power to a portable display without that hub I am using or a similar one as the in between.

I get that in a perfect world, based on how things should be working in theory with thunderbolt five as you have explained in your other comments, it “shouldn’t” be an issue. But, here we are. 🤷‍♂️

Did a couple longer calls with Apple support today - they asked me to take the new M4 Pro MBP to an apple store, so I dropped by one this afternoon. We tested with various displays and their fancy TB5 cables to rule all that out - the Apple in-store technician agreed that the DP over USB-C should work on a M4 Pro MBP as it does on other models. They asked me to call Apple back and submit a report - so I called apple back, they did a diagnostics data capture, and are hoping to have engineering take a look and get back to me next Wednesday (estimate). Hoping maybe this will be resolved in a future firmware update.

M1 Macbook Air specs: MacBook Air (M1, 2020) - Technical Specifications - Apple Support

Display Support:

Simultaneously supports full native resolution on the built-in display at millions of colors and:

• One external display with up to 6K resolution at 60Hz

Thunderbolt 3 digital video output

• Native DisplayPort output over USB-C
• VGA, HDMI, DVI, and Thunderbolt 2 output supported using adapters (sold separately)

M4 Pro MAcBook Pro specs: MacBook Pro (14-inch, M4 Pro or M4 Max, 2024) - Tech Specs - Apple Support

Display Support:

M4 Pro

• Simultaneously supports full native resolution on the built-in display at 1 billion colors and:
• Up to two external displays with up to 6K resolution at 60Hz over Thunderbolt, or one external display with up to 6K resolution at 60Hz over Thunderbolt and one external display with up to 4K resolution at 144Hz over HDMI
• One external display supported at 8K resolution at 60Hz or one external display at 4K resolution at 240Hz over HDMI

M4 Max

• Simultaneously supports full native resolution on the built-in display at 1 billion colors and:
• Up to four external displays: Up to three external displays with 6K resolution at 60Hz over Thunderbolt and one external display with up to 4K resolution at 144Hz over HDMI
• Up to three external displays: Up to two external displays with 6K resolution at 60Hz over Thunderbolt and one external display with up to 8K resolution at 60Hz or one external display with 4K resolution at 240Hz over HDMI

Thunderbolt 4 digital video output

• Support for native DisplayPort 1.4 output over USB-C

Thunderbolt 5 digital video output

• Support for native DisplayPort 2.1 output over USB-C

HDMI digital video output

• Support for one display with up to 8K resolution at 60Hz or 4K resolution at 240Hz

As indicated and cited above, both list support for DP over USB-C

Monitor in question in my particular scenario:

[Edited by Moderator]

mmn_slc wrote:

The Thunderbolt 5 specification requires that a port provide a minimum of 15W of power for accessories. https://www.thunderbolttechnology.net/sites/default/files/Thunderbolt_5_TechBrief_2023_09_12.pdf page 2.

Even if we assume that 15W is always available, the monitor originally discussed in this thread (a 17" UPERFECT 4K monitor)

• Had a user manual that said to use a separate power supply ("4K monitor needs higher voltage power; for a more stable power supply, it is recommended to use our original PD adapter to power" … and … "The power consumption of 4K monitor is relatively larger, and an external PD power supply is required.")
• Drew 50W of power when attached to a meter and a USB power bank (as shown in a photo in this thread)

My external monitors (Arzopa Z1FC) require a supply of 5v capable of 2.4A according to the manual. https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0570/9280/0675/files/Arzopa_Z1FC.pdf?v=1707041874 But, the ports on my Macbook Pro M4 Pro do not work with the monitors with a single cable (even with a USB SS20 cable which can handle 5A.)

Arzopa – Arzopa Z1FC 144Hz Portable Gaming Monitor | 16.1" Screen

There may be reasons other than power.

In one of these threads, someone reported that their portable monitor worked after it got a firmware update from the manufacturer. That would suggest that there was a bug in the old firmware, in the code for negotiating either the display connection or the power one, and that the new firmware fixed it.

Maybe something like that is going on here.

Me too. I had the same issue with the M4 Pro and a portable monitor that claimed it only needed one cable for both power and signal. However, after upgrading to macOS Tahoe, I finally got it working with the same setup. Hope this helps others here.

Today I tested a newly purchased Arzopa 16" 2.5k portable monitor with the M4 Pro Mac mini (the one with three Thunderbolt 5 ports). I am having the same problem with this monitor as everyone else. If I plug in the supplied USB-C cable between a thunderbolt port and the monitor, it initially turns on but then says there is no signal, and the monitor does not appear in macOS display settings. However, if I connect a second USB-C cable between either the front USB-C ports or the rear TB 5 port and the monitor, then it turns on, presumably getting the power it needs to run. Though to be honest, it runs more reliably when one cable is coming from the HDMI port on the mac into the HDMI port on the monitor and the other is into the USB-C port/TB port (or external power wall outlet (I even successfully tested it with a battery pack)) for power.

Given the monitor works fine when I plug in my iPhone, my iPad, and the Nintendo switch, from USB-C to USB-C without a second cable, I am not sure why the Mac mini cannot supply sufficient power. It does seem to be a bug with TB5 that could be fixed with a software or firmware update from Apple (though I'm not an expert on Thunderbolt/USB to know this with any real confidence).

Given, on reading all the posts in this thread, that the problem seems to relate to power delivery, it seems very odd to me that connecting a usb c display hub in between the thunderbolt 5 port and the monitor fixes the problem. Can you confirm (ToddGeorgeKelly) that there is no other external power being used for this to work....it's simply working by connecting an unpowered hub in between two USB-C cables, one connecting the hub to the Mac and the other end from the hub to the monitor? If this is the case, how is it possible that this unpowered hub seemingly adds the electrical power that is needed to transfer the signal. Or is it fixing the problem another way?

Has anyone had any success with any other hubs like the one suggested, perhaps cheaper and available in the UK?

Thanks everyone.