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Why do logic boards die?

Yesterday my 23-month-old MacBook Pro was diagnosed with a dead logic board. While I'm in the decision making process of whether having it repaired or replaced, I just want to get some advice as what could have gone wrong. I know that a diagnosis can only be made by examining the faulty board, however what I'd like to do is understand if there are practices which may seem “normal” during use, but instead are a time-bomb for the machine. I'm also aware that manufacturing processes have natural variations and that defective items can escape from quality control regimes, so this can be that I was lucky enough to end up with a defective unit.

Although a powerful machine, I use it mostly to light work like web browsing, music, photo and video library storage, sync an iPhone, and some video/music editing. I chose the machine based on its outer construction, portability, ease of use, speed, Mac OSX and durability. Unfortunately this last one was the only that did not meet my expectations.

The machine is used 99% of the time at home, so I am not normally carrying it away or traveling. It's used only by two people (my wife an I), we've never spilled any kind of liquid onto it. Never been dropped, and also I've never opened it (neither let someone else) to clean it on the inside. Components, including RAM, are factory originals.

Almost a year ago, the battery life decreased significantly (it only held charge for about 1 hour before having to plug it back). Since then we leave the computer most of the time plugged in while using it. After being done, we put it to sleep (again plugged) rather than shutting it down. During normal use we used a chill mat to keep it cool and to guard us from burns as this machine gets uncomfortably hot even when web browsing.

Where I live, while thunderstorms are very uncommon, power outages and surges may occur from time to time.

I would like to have some advice regarding practices and necessary precautions so I can avoid other machines to have the same luck.

15in MacBook Pro 2.5GHz, Core 2 Duo, Model: A1260, Part: MB134LL/A, Mac OS X (10.6.4), 2GB RAM / 512MB VRAM, 250GB HDD @ 5400 rpm

Posted on Aug 29, 2010 10:06 AM

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13 replies

Aug 29, 2010 10:16 AM in response to iSeekHelp

I'm afraid you've just had bad luck. Electronic devices can go on for years and years, or something can fail. A capacitor worth a few pence can fail and wreck a power bus: since modern components are surface mounted they are very difficult to replace, so one component can fail and wreck a whole board. It's a random thing: I have electronics I built 30 years ago still working well and some kit even older than that: I had a Palm handheld fail with corrupted ROM after eighteen months (and the repair would have cost more than the original device did). Failures are fairly rare, but inevitably some do happen and when they do someone has to be the unfortunate owner: I'm sorry to hear that in this case it was you.

Aug 29, 2010 1:28 PM in response to iSeekHelp

HEAT KILLS ELECTRONICS!! In addition, Apple uses a very poorly implementation of its "SMC" software which controls the cooling fans, combined with a poor "heat pipe" design of the cooling system intake and exhaust. The INTAKE is the spaces around the keyboard(I honestly feel a DEDICATED INTAKE VENT would allow higher velocity intake, while directed at the appropriate components would fix this issue), and the exhaust is in the hinge (See attached links)

http://att.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=239643&d=1279424916

http://www.powerbookmedic.com/xcart1/image.php?type=T&id=16975.jpg

http://www.griffincox.com/images/922-7886.gif


The result of this is that it takes too long for the cooling fans to speed up and keep the temperatures from literally cooking the internal components, in return for "quiet" computing.

Just because Intel's spec might say the processor's thermal characteristics can "handle" 95-105c before shutdown, DOES NOT mean that it's a GOOD IDEA(heck, I can DRIVE with my FEET, but that don't make it a good darn idea) to have the component operating ANYWHERE NEAR that temperature (70-80c even) for extended periods of time. What makes this even worse, is that the heat is NOT ONLY cooking the processor, and shortening it's life, BUT the OTHER motherboard/logic board components as well (GPU, various caps, etc, etc...)

and THAT is why Apple laptops tend to have soo many logic board failures....
The best defense is to use a utility like SMC fan control(and a cooling stand) and keep fans turned up to higher speed by default. Several forum posters say this will burn out the fans quicker, BUT what would you rather be replacing?? A $50.00 fan ( http://www.ifixit.com/MacBook-Parts/MacBook-Pro-15-Inch-Model-A1260-Right-Fan/IF 185-114) or a $700.00 logic board ( http://www.ifixit.com/MacBook-Parts/MacBook-Pro-15-Inch-Model-A1260-2-4-GHz-Logi c-Board/IF185-103)

Then there are the pure manufacturing "flaws" that a company as "premium" as Apple should be able to catch, but rarely do..(iPhone incident, Nvidia 8600 video cards, Exploding batteries, Mag safes catching on fire/overheating, Quality assurance/testing process FAILURE)

Good luck, I hope this helped you understand at least what "I've" been able to decipher in the 15 years I've been a pc/mac technician....

Message was edited by: osxtasy91

Message was edited by: osxtasy91

Aug 29, 2010 1:06 PM in response to iSeekHelp

Hi i,

As already stated, electronics can just fail . . . for a variety of reasons. I don't think you did anything "wrong."

iSeekHelp wrote:
During normal use we used a chill mat to keep it cool and to guard us from burns as this machine gets uncomfortably hot even when web browsing.


This probably was a symptom of an issue and/or the cause of the LB failure. What could have caused it? A poor job at the factory with the heat transfer paste, getting too hot a few times, the case being flexed, maybe by lifting it one-handed from a corner, or carrying it in a shoulder bag resting against your hip while walking. Most often, a portable computer will stand up to these rather common occurrences, but if it was on the "edge" between being ok/bad from the factory . . . . In any case, don't beat yourself up for it. 😉

I would like to have some advice regarding practices and necessary precautions so I can avoid other machines to have the same luck.


For whatever reason, the metal-cased Mac portables have been rather sensitive to picking up one-handed, so I would definitely recommend against that. Also see Apple Portables: Calibrating your computer's battery for best performance.

Aug 29, 2010 3:32 PM in response to iSeekHelp

Thanks to all of you for taking your time to share your knowledge. I'm sure you can understand my frustration. This is my first portable computer, and my first and only Mac to date. I've been a PC's user (@college, @work and @home) for 18 years. Most of them have been Dell (4), Compaq's (2) and an Acer netbook (which I bought as a “disposable” computer for travel so I did not have to take my MBP). In those years I've seen very few failures (One 40GB WD hard drive failure, which after being replaced I was lucky enough to recover most of the data in it).

The main reasons I moved to Mac? First, I wanted to skip Windows Vista. Second, Macs do no need system-resource-draining anti-virus software. Third, hopes for a fast, stable and durable product.

@ tjk: I wasn't aware of that one-handed deadly grip. That's a something I'll stop doing, thanks for the advice. In terms of the battery calibration, I did it (for the 1st time as far as I remember) 4-5 days before my MBP died. Anyway, my battery was already holding ~50% of its original capacity, so I wasn't very optimistic about any real benefit at that point. Another lesson I think I learned too late.

@osxtasy91: I couldn't read the macrumors link (couldn't log or register at the site). From the other links I saw the pictures. I agree the heat dissipation design needs rethinking. Although I think that neither the fans nor the LB would have to be replaced in a well designed and expensive system.

@Roger: It is true that no manufacturing process is defect free, and was inclined to think I just had the luck to get a bad product. However, after doing some “googling” I'm coming to the conclusion that there is indeed some sort of manufacturing/design problem with logic boards on the last 3 to 4 years. In the last 2 days I've read posts from an awfully large number of people complaining from similarly doomed logic boards dating back to 2007 Mac models. A few of these users report multiple LB failures in a year. Some people blame it on numerous causes (which I just mention here, but I neither agree or disagree with them) ranging from OS updates, to Apple's switch to Intel processors; true or not, I know that, for whatever reasons, mine failed. I'm afraid to buy another MBP and face the same fate, while on the other hand I'm aware that this could have happened with any other electronic equipment.

Again thanks to all of you for the advice, I just hope this thread is helpful to both other users and Apple itself.

Aug 29, 2010 3:59 PM in response to iSeekHelp

iSeekHelp wrote:
I'm afraid to buy another MBP and face the same fate, while on the other hand I'm aware that this could have happened with any other electronic equipment.


If you do decide on a new Mac, you may want to consider AppleCare, which extends both the hardware warranty and phone support to three years total (your LB likely would have been covered on this MBP). Note: it does not cover "accidents"/physical damage. If you do decide on AC, and if you have any education connections, the education price is significantly cheaper. Also, there used to be legit deals on ebay; I have not looked at those in awhile and cannot say if they're still available, nor legit. Good luck on your decision.

Aug 29, 2010 8:11 PM in response to tjk

Hi there,

Catching up now. Very strong posts here, guys, congratulations!

I want report my great satisfaction with my 1,1 model, handled by a very good care and use.

In fact my great and main concern, that constantly drives my usage, became the temperature and fans activity, the cooling system.

I must say that in a 3.5 year period, this was not of my great concern, but not without consequences. I kept full time loaded jobs, up to windowing Mail, Safari video browsing, Itunes, Microsoft Word, Adobe Photoshop and minor support applications for hours, and without care that much, in 1 year period, experienced crashes getting more and more frequent. Was only about a month past that I discovered my first kernel panic, which happened while I was away and a friend was using my Mac.

From that point I managed to zero out OS, not without a week having only the Single User access and command line interaction (which I was 20 years apart).

Since then, I avoid the 70~80 degrees by using Fan Control Exponential and keep heavy tasks and loads only when truly needed. With this I see myself running the fine and new Snow Leopard and other new apps on a factory default hardware and full functional MacBook Pro 1,1 with 2 kernel panics in 4~5 years.

Thank you, guys, and again, posts here were great.

Cheers, K.

Aug 30, 2010 4:02 AM in response to iSeekHelp

Here are some of the airflow diagrams again for viewing. Sorry about the previous mac rumors link. I forgot it required login.

[IMG] http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx38/osxtasy/MBPintake3.png[/IMG]

[IMG] http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx38/osxtasy/MBPKBoardintakevents2.gif[/IMG]

[IMG] http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx38/osxtasy/MBPKBoardintakevents1.jpg[/IMG]

Aug 30, 2010 2:19 PM in response to iSeekHelp

Sad to see that your macbook pro died after such a short time of use. I have the 2006 model (2.33ghz), and It's been good to me. I have used it everyday for graphics work as my main computer (some video work also). No issues for me since day one. I've had 3 portables before this one, and luckily they were all good to me. My Imac G5 just died from a blown capacitor, which apparently was an issue with a small number of machines out there - it lasted me 6 years. The cost to repair the board is more than the machine itself.

Regarding another purchase, these days, I do think quality control is not the same as before, hence a lot more poorer quality products hit the shelves unnoticed. With more affordable macs each and every year, something has to get compromised right?

I don't know if my next portable down the road will last me 4+ years.

Aug 30, 2010 6:57 PM in response to iSeekHelp

osxtasy91, thanks for the pictures. It helps to understand why these boards are prone to fry so frequently. It seems that there should be some other kind of cooling aid. I may add that I've read also a thread in the iMac discussions where these machines also have similar logic board issues, with repair costs starting at $900. I started researching some info on these machines as an alternative to buying a new laptop. Since I wasn't really taking an advantage on the computer's portability and to keep my existing iPhone syncing, music and photo libraries in iTunes and iPhoto respectively while searching for a "cheaper??" alternative. Seems I ran into a dead end in my search for better options.

@vc187: I agree that QC is not the same as in the past, and in my opinion you can notice it everywhere. We just have to look into trivial things where the likeliness of a customer complaint is either improbable or non-consequent. Take for example a disposable drinking straws with one end sealed. In these trivial cases, I think that such companies are being hit so hard by the current economic situation that is likely they've been forced to loosen their quality standards to deal with production costs. In such cases the risk and implications of a defective unit are obviously not the same as in the case of a costly consumer product such as a computer, LCD TV, a car, etc. What I don't agree completely is that macs are more affordable each an every year. Yes they have somehow lowered their prices, but it seems that there is a hidden (besides high) cost related to the product's durability, not to mention that it seems AppleCare is not optional but rather an almost required add-on to the already high bill if you want to keep your computer for at least 3 years. I'm sure you can understand how it feels.

Let's see if my disposable $350 10-in Acer netbook's logic board can outlast my former MBP. My bet is that it shamefully will.

Sep 20, 2010 11:53 AM in response to iSeekHelp

@iSeekHelp. I feel your pain. I just took my MBP in on Saturday because it would not power up and found out it was a failed Logic Board – and my Macbook is only 13 months old. I was ******. Comparatively it's a $310 repair versus dropping another $2600 to buy a new one, but there's no guarantee that it won't happen again. There's only a 90 day warranty on the new board. I've never bought the extended Apple Care plan, but it's looking pretty good right now.

Oct 4, 2010 7:06 AM in response to agwalters

One should ALWAYS regularly back up one's HD onto an external hard drive, or use an online data backup service ( or both if your data is super critical to you).
A MacBook Pro's logic board or hard disk can fail at any time.
The MBP's logic board is far from robust and very failure prone. I've had two of them fail in my MBP's second year of use...thankfully, I purchased AppleCare extended warranty before my first year's warranty expired.
So far, besides the two logic board failures, I've had a hard drive failure, a sound board failure and a SuperDrive failure, all covered under AppleCare.
Overall quality control and reliability are NOT MacBook Pro's strong points.
Those MBP owners who have had no or very few problems with their machines are few and far between and just plain lucky.

Why do logic boards die?

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