Debited more than authorised via Apple Pay

Fraud by the merchant. Apple has no legal authority to intercede in these matters. This includes investigating your claim, representing you to the merchant etc. It’s unfortunate that this happened. But the circumstances and remedies are beyond Apple’s abilities or jurisdiction.

Your agreement to use the payment method you chose also spells out your bank’s responsibilities and the card holder’s responsibilities.

The issue of the amount is a good distinction. Your claims could well be a systematic fraud scheme that your local police can investigate and present evidence before a judge for prosecution. Apple has no authority or means to do any of that.

Your bank also has a large fraud department that can investigate as well and present their findings to police for potential prosecution. In the future if you suspect fraud on any of your accounts bypass the regular customer support and request a transfer to the fraud department. This will avoid the frustration you’ve experienced. Send one email to the merchant and if no reply, contact the bank’s fraud department and wash your hands of the matter.

So, Apple was not the merchant and it has nothing to do with your Apple Account. What the bank support person told you is totally unrelated. His account was closed for financial issues with his Apple account and was unprofessional of him to have biased you with an unrelated issue.

When an Apple Pay transaction is started by taping a terminal or online, a one time use only encrypted payment token is generated on the device and authenticated using biometrics or a passcode. The token is sent from your device over NFC if in store or internet if online to the merchant’s POS system.

The merchant does not have the key to decrypt financial or personal information except online orders that require shipping. Then only name, address, email and phone number. The merchant forwards the encrypted token to their credit card processor or possibly the Payment Network Operator (Visa, Mastercard, American Express etc.), who then forwards the token to their credit card bank for final authorization. If the payment is approved an approval (or decline) is transmitted back to their merchant’s POS, that displays a message on the terminal. At no point in the transaction does Apple know anything about the payment. This includes the amount, item(s) purchased, who purchased, what method of payment etc. Information that appears in your Wallet app is sent by the bank. At no point does any information pass through Apple servers. Banks and merchants are prohibited by law from sharing with Apple information about the transaction.

Now to specifically address your situation. If the amount you agreed to differs from what you approved, it’s a reason to get an explanation from the merchant. If the information seems incorrect or incomplete, address the issue with local law enforcement and dispute the transaction with the bank. The bank approved the transaction, not Apple.

By federal law, the instant you dispute the transaction, the amount of the transaction is suspended from your account, no interest can be charged and the amount is not due.

Questions I can assist with?

There could be several reasons. One often overlooked charge is currency exchange rates and foreign transaction fees. Another frequent are of confusion is tips in a restaurant. It can also be charges incurred after an inspection such as rental car fees and hotel fees. You’ll need to contact the merchant for an explanation and possible refund.

Sounds like the bank person is uninformed on what Apple Pay is and when it’s used. The person is equally ignorant when it comes to when Apple Accounts are used vs. Apple Pay and how they work.

Apple Pay is an option to use online, or in a physical location. Apple Pay uses a technology known as Tap-To-Pay. Payments are either in the form of a credit card or debit card. The merchants that use Apple Pay are any merchant other than Apple themselves.

Apple Account uses credit cards, debit cards and Apple Gift cards of funds directly deposited into an Apple Account. Apple Account is used for online transactions at Apple.com/store, Apple Retail Stores, Apple App Store, iTunes etc. In app purchases use Apple Account.

People frequently confuse Apple Card Mastercard, Apple Gift card, Apple Account, Apple Cash, and Apple Pay.

It is confusing, we’re in agreement on that. But for a bank support person to have a total ignorance of what Apple Pay is, is unconscionable.

So, let’s resolve your concerns and learn what Apple Pay is, how it works and move forward to minimize your time commitment and come away with an understanding your bank is unable to provide.

First question, is Apple the merchant or is it another company?

Something is not completely apparent (at least not to me) after re-reading this thread …

… the charge was in in Pounds … but is your payment method based on another denomination ?

i.e. Was a currency exchange indeed involved ?

I don’t think you’d find much disagreement amongst consumers that international currency exchange practices can be less than fully transparent.

The agreement you signed when you opened the credit card account and accepted the offer for credit contained language allowing merchants with specific Merchant Category Codes(MCC) to add specific charges after the time of initial payment. This covers foreign transaction fees and currency exchange rates.

When you rent certain items such as autos, hotels rooms etc. the rental agreement contains language that grants the merchant the right to add additional fees per the contract terms.

Without any specifics I can only address common issues that occur.

I’m not sure where the confusion is. The fraud you’ve stated happened (or almost happened) would have happened if you hadn’t used Apple Pay and just paid with a credit card or debit card. The only way to absolutely avoid it would have been to paid cash.

Payment Network Operators (Visa, Mastercard etc.) and merchant banks assign every merchant a MCC, Merchant Category Code, which loosely describes their primary business. Some merchants, if assigned the right MCC, have the ability to reopen a charge ticket and adjust the price of the payment.

A prime example, as I mentioned earlier, is a restaurant. The bill is presented by the server and you give him your credit card. The charge is processed and your bank approves the transaction. You receive the slip back with your card and you add the tip. After the restaurant closes, each charge slip is opened back up on the POS and the tip is added to the previous bank approved amount. The new total is not confirmed with the bank or approved by the bank. The merchant just gets to add an amount. No oversight, nothing. This is the way it’s done with or without using Apple Pay.

I’m not sure why this is so concerning or stressful. Credit cards have been processed this way for well over 60 years. I’m not so sure why suddenly your thoughts have changed. 😃

Romany65 wrote:

The bank representative said same thing had happened to him and when he complained to Apple they closed his Apple Pay account and he could not add any cards to it.

This is materially false. There is no such thing as an Apple Pay account. Apple Pay is a service, they are not a bank. Apple does not participate in the entire payment process that I described above. Further more, Apple does not actively participate in adding cards to Apple Wallet. That function is restricted to the Payment Network Operator and the issuing bank. Apple does not have the ability to restrict cards from being added to Apple Wallet for use with Apple Pay. Again, the bank’s support person is totally ignorant of the process or just outright lying.

Re: “… for a bank support person to have a total ignorance of what Apple Pay is, is unconscionable …”

Well stated … especially since ApplePay has been active for well over a decade at this point ! 👏👏👏

If you’re so inclined, you might find this blog post informative:

https://codeburst.io/how-does-apple-pay-actually-work-f52f7d9348b7

It’s a fairly detailed description of a complex system involving multiple processes and entities; so it’s not cooked-down into “Five, pre-digested bullet points.”

(i.e. It requires reading and thought)

It’s unfortunate that the bank representative with whom you spoke apparently didn’t even have this most basic level of understanding.