Problem with 16GB on 2010 iMac 27" i5 & i7.

Sorry for the additional post, but I just got off the phone with OWC. The technical manager says they have received returned RAM and could not confirm issues with the same model iMac. They "ran tests". But some in the forum, including myself, have ran tests. The memory checks out okay. If this is an Apple issue, the memory will pass tests, and may likely pass them in a problematic machine.

However, given the rate of returns of OWC RAM, I don't want to take the risk of buying and then being stuck with RAM that may not perform weeks down the road. Even if it's not their issue.

I'm going to return my OWC RAM and see what others have to say about the Samsung Factory and Transcend memory.

I have done all the tests (AHT; Rember test recomended by OWC) and other things the said on their website concerning memory problems. And all tests showed that the ram was ok.
Except when you use it in a 16 G setup. I asked OWC if they have tested their ram and they replied that all the ram were tested before leaving their shop.
Than I asked if I could change the OWC ram for Samsung factorry ram(which they sell as well).
On that question I never got an answer. Phoning them is for me a bit difficult living in Holland.
So for now I am hoping that a solution will occur and meanwhile use less ram.
Buying Samsung ram is an option, but only when this particular ram is obtainable in Holland or Europe.
I am fed up with all the hassle of transportation costs,import duties, VAT etc.


peterwillem

The shipping, VAT, and overpriced merchandise in the EU is crazy. Those in the UK probably see the worst of it.

When I worked in Oslo, I was shocked at the prices, and the taxes. My Nordic colleagues couldn't believe how little taxes I paid.

When I called Apple, they were not aware of the problem. The indicated that this would be a much bigger issue if this were a design or manufacturing issue. I disagree, as they told me the same thing with the ATI video issue on my 3-year-old iMac, and with the Macbook Pro NVidia soldering issue.

I asked for a replacement, given what the store had said, and the 2nd level tech was unwilling to process it and give me a "free machine" when my computer was 16, not 14 days old. In fact, I haven't even had it for 14 days.

I encourage everyone with this issue to call Apple and register their complains/dissatisfaction.

More to follow . . .

I totally agree with you on all counts. Though I did not ask for a replacement. I have mine for 2 months now. Apple care said that I should use Apple ram which causes no problems. And from their point of view they are right. As an individual you are more or less powerless against a multi national.
But from marketing/name viewpoint they definitely should take action on this, because the list of plaintiffs is still growing.
I wonder how many if any apple ceo's are reading these forums and if they do something about these kind of problems. I do recall the screen flickering issue.

peterwillem

I've been the rounds. First, the corporate Apple rep I spoke with says he'll do what he can do to get a new machine. I also tried contacting the Apple Store. The Apple genius did not document my visit for whatever reason, but their management said they'd get some comments entered. It sounds like they enter comments when they need to take action, and I told them last night I would address the issue myself. Then I saw this thread.

The store could not issue a refund or replacement on the machine because it came from the online store. So in both cases, I was going to have to wait for the online store.

The manager proposed a unique solution. He offered to sell me the RAM for what I paid to OWC. With tax, it's still $40 more, but well worth making this headache go away. I'm leery about the reports of Apple RAM failing as well, but this solution gives me three things: 1) I saw the very same modules work for me last night, 2) Our corporate rep sells more of these with 16GB preloaded than not (corporate sales), 3) if there is an issue, Apple can't claim it's a 3rd party. Apple also wins because they (hopefully) don't get a machine sent back.

However, given the reports in this forum, I hope I'm not swapping a repeatable issue with an intermittent one.

I think the suggestions are just an unwitting diversion. I don't have Flash installed on my test drive, but I do have Photoshop installed, which repeatedly triggers a crash.

I'd suggest dusting off a 100GB drive or more and install Mac OS and see where it takes you. I have renamed my drive, but my test drive is named Macintosh HD. It fails on both.

What do they see in the log that's the issue? And do you get hangs or crashes. If you see a crash, you may not see anything in the log, as in my case.

I never changed the names my iMac has given my two disks. Macintosh HD (my SSD disk) and Macintosh HD2 ( my 1 tb hdd). And I have these problems almost from the start. Though I have to say in the beginning it took several days before it happened , later only a couple of hours.
I followed the advise of Apple Care (Apple online store) and did a complete new system install erasing the ssd. I did a lot more which all can be read in my thread about this issue.
So I don't think the name changing has anything to do with this.

peterwillem

Yeah, I didn't think that was the problem either.

I formatted and reinstalled too (for other reasons though) and still had the problem. I too have a SSD for my boot drive and a 2TB drive for my secondary. I don't think they were trying to mislead me or anything with the suggestion to rename the HDD (they even said that they doubted it was the issue, but that they wanted to eliminate it as a possible problem).

Like others, I'm having a kernel panic and the machine just shuts off (with nothing written to normal system logs).

One thing I've noticed (as well as others) is that if I take the RAM out or flush the cache (unplug computer, then hold power button for a while) then it takes a few days before the problem happens again. So Apple engineers are looking into the possibility of the problem having to do with memory filling up first or something (I'm not going to pretend to explain what they meant).

Keep pestering them. They are looking into it, but let them know about all these forums posts and how much it's affecting you. Hopefully someone will find a fix soon.

Are you thinking of a ssd cause, maybe because earlier iMacs which don't have ssd are not having this particular problem?
The power theory makes more sense to me.
A nice test would be for those, who have several kinds of ram available , to put in one slot 2x4 G non problem causing rams(Apple,Samsung Factory) and in the other 2x4 G shutdown problem causing rams (OWC, Crucial etc).

I hope that some readers who can do this will perform this test.


peterwillem

Not necessarily the SSD causing the issue, but possibly a power imbalance. iMac models without SSDs CAN be modified to carry one, but the change is not trivial. In putting patterns together the SSD did cross my mind, as did the processor and video card, but those don't seem to be an issue. But when two others, including myself have SSDs, the question was worth asking.

BTW, whether this thread or another, there was one or two posters with factory-installed Apple RAM having this issue.

I have test results just back. I'm not experiencing random shutdowns as most of you are, but my machine does shut down when I open a file in Photoshop. 100% reproducible.

I have OWC RAM and Apple RAM and an Apple iMac 11,3, 2.93GHz Core i7 with SSD. I just received an identical new 27" iMac. Here's what I've discovered:

Old iMac + OWC RAM: Crash
Old iMac + Apple RAM: Ok
New iMac + OWC RAM: Ok
New iMac + Apple RAM: OK

Your mileage may vary, as I may have a different problem. But the fact that a new iMac solved the issue with OWC RAM lends more credibility to 3rd party RAM than Apple on this issue, especially given the results from others in using the same RAM on other model machines.

Looks interesting but a little odd to me.
First let me get one thing clear: You have now 2 identical iMacs mid 2010 27" , one being a few months older than the other?

Then you are saying the older iMac crashes only with your OWC ram, the newer one does not crash with either ram.
And all those crashes you can "fire up" by opening some photoshop file.

Is this correctly summarized?

If possible do the following test:

Run both iMacs for a period of time without using photoshop. If in that case you don't experience any shutdowns with both iMacs and using 16 G OWC ram than you have a different problem.
And I would like to know what chipset your OWC ram has, if that is possible (no stickers taped over them as with mine)

I just read in your earlier post that your OWC ram has micron chips. Mine have different chips, cant read which. So the problem lies maybe with the chip the OWC ram is using and apparently
not all the OWC ram are using the same.
So maybe they have found out about the problems and what causes them and changed their chips.

I wait for your results.


peterwillem

Message was edited by: peterwillem

I have two identical Macs. The first one shipped on October 7th from Apple, the second one shipped October 25th from Apple.

Then you are saying the older iMac crashes only with your OWC ram, the newer one does not crash with either ram.
And all those crashes you can "fire up" by opening some photoshop file.
Is this correctly summarized?

Yes

Run both iMacs for a period of time without using photoshop. If in that case you don't experience any shutdowns with both iMacs and using 16 G OWC ram than you have a different problem.

I can tell you now that I did not experience intermittent shutdowns with the old machine and OWC RAM. But I could get it to shutdown when using Photoshop.

And I would like to know what chipset your OWC ram has, if that is possible (no stickers taped over them as with mine)

It was Micron, but I just sent mine back, so I unfortunately can't tell you more. The Apple RAM bling I have now is from Samsung.

Thx,
I bought my OWC ram and iMac around august 6 th. This looks like that in the mean time Apple and/or OWC did something with their iMacs respectively rams.
The chips on my OWC ram show no brand name just numbers and have a sticker on them that says if you remove it, all guaranty is void. I wonder why? Probably it is some cheap/****** one which they changed after the problems arose.
I cannot imagine that Apple did some hardware change to their iMacs in such a short time.
I wonder what chips others have on their OWC ram who are still having these problems?


Quote:
"I can tell you now that I did not experience intermittent shutdowns with the old machine and OWC RAM. But I could get it to shutdown when using Photoshop."


These problems sometimes occurred with long intervals, hours even days. So maybe you did not wait long enough, without using Photoshop, to let them happen.
But we cannot check that now.
Well your shutdown problems are over and mine will remain if using 16 G OWC ram.
But I can live with 12 G for now. It is only that I paid for 16 G without being able to use them fully.


peterwillem

Another update: Renaming the primary boot drive back to "Macintosh HD" did not fix the problem. I would have posted an update on this sooner, but I was away on a business for a bit.

So far the only luck I've been having is to either flush the cache on the machine (shut down the iMac, pull the power cord, then hold the power button for 10 seconds), or reduce the RAM on the machine from 16GB to anything lower (12, 8, or 4).

I'm still in touch with Apple support, but we're not making much headway.