No Volume Control on new Apple TV

dgalvan123 wrote:

solsun wrote:

dgalvan123 wrote:
Only difference is: the remote can control volume when using front row, but not when using apple tv. I still don't understand why not.

Like I said in the above post, when using front row, you are controlling the volume of the computer and/or the level of the signal that's being output from the (Apple) computer. On Apple TV, the sound is being output via HDMI or optical to either a receiver or a tv which the IR Apple remote can't control..

Still don't see the difference you are trying to explain.

Yes, on the mac you are controlling the mac's volume. That audio signal, volume controlled at the device (the mac) is then pumped out via audio/video cables to your TV.

On the apple tv the audio signal is pumped out via audio/video cables to your tv as well. Why shouldn't you be able to control that volume output at the apple tv, just like you can at the mac? There's no fundamental difference: both devices are outputting video and audio to a TV. Yes, you can use the TV speaker volume control, but in the case of the mac you can ALSO control volume output at the source. I see no reason why this shouldn't be possible with apple tv.

Yes, there is a fundamental difference in what the devices were designed to do.. The primary function of a Mac is not to be used as an output device to a home theater setup, however, the Apple TV is. Sure, it is possible to control the output level from the Apple TV, but it's not ideal, which I'm assuming is why Apple have chosen not to enable such functionality. Particularly for a home theater system setup, the best sound quality and lowest noise ratio is when the media device is output at line level to a receiver or TV and then the volume controlled via the receiver.. just like media devices have been doing for the past 25 years..

What's more, according to other people in this thread, Apple DID allow you to control volume from the first generation apple tv. So why not the 2nd gen?

I have a first gen Apple Tv, mine does not allow volume control (that i'm aware of.) Perhaps, these are jailbroken?

Well I'm not accustomed to setting the volume with a second remote. All my audio signals pass through my receiver to my Beolab3 speakers, which are self-amplified and therefore cannot be attenuated by adjusting the volume on my receiver.

I'm not even using the Apple Remote. I have a learning remote that works better.

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3296

There is clearly no technical reason why Apple could not add a volume control to appleTV, but I'll be very surprised if they choose to do so. It is important to keep in mind that despite the name appleTV2 is a very different product from appleTV1. The first appleTV was a stripped-down Mac. Computers typically play music through headphones or mini-speakers which often lack volume controls, so computers have volume controls. The new appleTV is a dedicated network streaming component for a home AV system, and AV components like VCRs, DVDs, and DVRs typically lack volume controls because they are designed to be played through a TV or receiver that has its own volume control. So very few people would have any use for an additional volume control. Moreover, the new appleTV is not designed for the computer-savvy user, and an additional volume control could be a source of problems and confusion. Sound quality is maximized by an audio component outputting sound at an optimal signal level for a receiver or TV. If the sound on the appleTV were to accidentally be turned down, a user might wonder why the sound quality is poor, or why they cannot get adequate volume with their receiver or TV turned up to max.

I don't think the Apple Remote is a particularly good match to the device, however. While VCRs and DVD players don't normally have volume controls, they frequently do include a universal remote with the capacity to control TV or receiver volume. Apple has made a nod in this direction by giving the new appleTV the ability to work with any universal remote. But what that means in practice is that I admired Apple's beautiful little remote for a few minutes, then put it away, likely never to be used again.

Message was edited by: tgibbs

If Apple didn't want to support volume control, they shouldn't have given the Apple TV a separate audio out port. Unless they're planning to support volume control but couldn't get it ready in time for a September launch. Or they left out volume control simply to reduce size/cost. I was trying to make the same weak playback device excuse to myself when I started using my ATV and discovered this, but then I looked at my DVD player's remote and saw the giant volume control button on it.

On one hand my DVD and VCR remotes can also be programmed as universal remotes, but the DVD and VCR themselves also have volume control on the actual box. I don't know how old your VCR and DVD players are, but the theory about playback devices "never" having volume control is flatly untrue. And we're not even talking about something that's technically impossible. Obviously they can include it if they wanted to - they simply chose not to, either for cost, size, time reasons.

But what makes it seem more silly is they've got this shiny metallic remote with so much empty space on it (almost as large as the Apple TV itself), and they've got a fancy iOS app with fancy gestures etc., and in the middle of controlling the playback none of these input devices let you control one of the most basic components of playback; you still have to pickup another remote just to control volume. By Apple standards, that's plain sloppy!

Many newer DVR, DVD and BluRay players have digital audio outs but lack volume control, just as most (no, not all, but most) DVD players and VCRs in the past had analog audio outputs, but lacked volume controls. And given the appleTV's ability to work with pretty much any existing remote control (so you really don't need two remote controls to control AppleTV and volume), I'll be surprised if Apple chooses to add this feature--although I too was a bit disappointed to put Apple's sleek, shiny little remote away, probably never to be used again.

Guess with that logic, Apple might as well take volume control off my computer and just let me reach over and manually turn up and down my remote speakers using the button on the front.

All that's required in Apple TV is a simple sound dampener that brings down the feed. Software upgrade could fix it to work just like my iMac where the remote changes volume for those remote speakers with that funny volume button on the front.

Actually, I wonder whether it is even possible to attenuate the volume of a digital signal without losing digital resolution and impairing audio fidelity. To provide control at the source without harming fidelity, it would be necessary to transmit separate digital volume information that is distinct from the music information. Because digital audio was designed for delivering audio to a device that controls volume after the digital to audio conversion, it seems unlikely that any provision would have been made for this. Perhaps somebody who knows the details of digital sound encoding can shed light on this?

That doesnt make any sense.

The new APPLETV does not need volume controls...how on earth are you to control the volume when the source of the volume is coming from a different device?
it is all digital.

For example I cant adjust the volume on my MAC when i have OPTICAL/Digital receiver plugged into it as the volume is being controlled and distributed via the OPTICAL receiver.

HDMI is digital, Optical is digital...so you need to adjust them directly as they are distributors of the audio signal.
Think of the AppleTV of an AirPort Express for your TV/Video+Audio

On basic cable, you just use the remote to control the incoming pictures volume coming out of your set and no the source where its being sent from (tv station/cable provider).

Well there is another way to control the volume of your reciever using the apple remote app with your second gen apple tv...you can turn on remote speakers setting in itunes, then make sure you select the apple tv as one of your speakers(this should appear as an airplay icon on the bottom right of itunes screan, just click and select apple tv as a speaker), you might have to enable this on apple tv device as well, then in the apple remote software select the itunes library for control instead of apple tv, now you can play your music thru the app and control volume. The kick is that you wont get all the functionality control(see your playlists on the screen, album art etc...you still get a small notification on your tv of what is playing) that you get when selecting apple tv as the library to control. Also if you dont want it to play out of your computure speakers as the same time then you need to only select apple tv as the speaker to control

You are not right. I never connected my speakers to my DVD player, but to my TV. In apple TV's case, my speakers are connected directly to apple TV. Thus, there has to be a way to control sound of those speakers without going to reach to them directly. If there is audio port, there is no way to control loudness of that audio? Just think of this scenario: if I go to my iTunes on my Mac, select a song and stream it to the speakers connected on my apple TV, then I can adjust volume in iTunes. If I am on my apple TV, select a song from my computer and play it over speakers connected to the same apple TV, I can't adjust the sound? Is there a fundamental difference between two options, as in both cases audio is played over same apple tv optical audio out port? I can't use my TV remote, as my speakers are connected directly to apple tv optical audio port. And my speakers don't have remote control.

I can just see the support messages now... "My ATV 2 has no volume!" Tech: Did you turn down the volume via the remote? "Why ummm errr ummm.. never mind.. bye".

Apple likes to keep it simple. 🙂

Yes. It is possible. http://tinyurl.com/29yfc6s

The biggest problem for this new Apple TV is when someone wants to use this in whole house system and leaving preamps at a predetermined level and use only the iphone or ipad or ipod touch to control the volume. The older apple TV had the volume control and worked splendid.

Michael

Alley_Cat wrote:
The tech is talking crap

By which I mean the remote simply outputs an IR signal, how the device at the other end interprets that signal is independent of the remote itself.

AppleTV 1 added volume control for stereo sound in one of the software updates.

Frankly, I was one of the people who used to argue then that volume control should be the role of the amp/receiver or TV set and is not the primary job of a media device.

Primarily I was against it as I didn't want the bitstream altered to attenuate the sound as inevitably detail would be lost - old AppleTV stereo output was 44.1kHz/16bit PCM over optical - the bandwidth was fixed.

In practice I don't mind such features so long as they can be disabled.

Multichannel audio would be even more intensive to process in AppleTV, it would have to be decoded, adjusted and re-encoded to a quieter 'passthrough' signal and I think this would have been beyond the 1st gen as it had limited horsepower, and on top pf that there may well have been licensing considerations for decoding the stream which Apple did not want to deal with.