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If so, I would be very grateful for any help in terms of :
1) When buying a D8B second hand, what do I need it to have / include in order for it to purely work as a controller for logic (all 24 channels, and transport, etc).
2) The same as above, but if I want to also use a couple of audio inputs and a master stereo out for monitoring.
3) I understand I'll need a midi map to enable the 24 faders, and that there are some issues with low resolution midi. If anyone has any pointers on this I'd be very grateful.
If you want to do this primarily to control Logic, I wouldn't recommend it.
You can search the archives here as others have done this before, but it's no Mackie Control. As far as I recall, the control surface layer is not very capable, and is I believe limited to a fixed eight channels.
I'd recommend a Mackie Control system over a d8b
any day.
I've read quite a few of your posts over the last few weeks on this forum and (I think) others, while researching this and they've been incredibly helpful.
I'm in the uk also. I don't know if there's a way to send a private message through this board incase we're nearby? I'm also on the d8bforums board if not.
Ok, so I think I had it wrong in my head. Am I right in thinking this :
As long as I have 3 DIO-8 cards, and an ADAT interface for my Mac, plus a midi interface for my Mac, I can do the following.
- ditch my apogee and use the d8b for inputs and monitoring.
- use the first 8 strips on the d8b for controlling 8 strips in logic
- the remaining strips to each receive 1 raw audio output from selected channels in logic (effectively using logic as a basic hdr) allowing me to do all the mixing, eq, etc in the d8b
- monitor the whole thing out from the d8b
- use the d8b's effects and eq etc on the raw audio coming from logic
- bounce the whole thing down back to a stereo channel strip in logic
If the above is correct :
Lets say I put two midi instruments in logics first two channels. I can control those two channel strips using the d8b, but where does the audio from these tracks end up?
Do I need to keep two d8b channels free for the composite stereo result of any of these channels?
Also, are you saying that in hui mode, the desk controls the first 8 strips but that you can press a button on the d8b to jump to the next 8 channels in logic?
Thanks a LOT for your time, and for going through all this a few months before me!!
UK OldSkooler is right in that negative experiences played a part in what I've posted, but only to a very limited extent. I never got the HUI/control surface thing to play nice consistently with Logic. There's one other thing I should mention... that even when I did get it working, what I really wanted were touch-sensitive faders. I figured that if I was going to move my Mackie faders to write automation to Logic then I wanted (if not needed) them to be touch sensitive.
On the flip side, the Mackie automation is superb, and I used it very often. There were just times when it was easier to "ride my rides" using the Mackie automation. You can automate just about everything on the Mackie too, including EQ's.
Other than that, everything else I posted on the subject of the D8B itself represents my sincere fondness for the board. I'd still offer just the lil' reality that it is an old piece of gear for which spare parts are getting harder to find. There are nevertheless resources for parts, including a guy named Steve T. on the D8B forum (if in fact he's still there). And if you ever need a "sparkle supply" I've got one sitting here. 😉 But of course, let's hope you never do.
Now, to your latest post!
If you have 3 DIO-8 cards (recommended in lieu of the OPT-8 cards, BTW) you still need a way to get audio out of Logic and into those cards. If you wanted to run 24 discreet outputs from Logic (so that you could lay up sounds on 24 channels of audio coming from Logic) you'd need an interface as I described in my previous post. You'd run 3 optical cables out from that interface to the D8B, representing:
And in Logic, you'd be routing tracks out of more outputs than just the plain ol' stereo output (output 1/2). Your Logic projects would need to include 24 outputs (12 output pairs or some combination of stereo and mono outputs). Not hard to do, nothing unusual either. Just keep in mind that your setup would not be what many people's "in the box" (ITB) setups use, and that's just the stereo output (out 1/2).
Or, you could do things a little differently... Dedicate 16 outputs from Logic for laying up various tracks (or subgroups) on the board. The first 14 would be for Logic outputs (for shaping your mixes on the board). The last 2 would be for playback of 2-mixes. There are other possible configurations as well.
When it comes time to recording the output of the board, you'd simply bus the master outputs back into Logic, put a new track into record, and actually record the output of the board back into Logic in real time. Keep in mind that at no point in your use of the D8B in conjunction with Logic would you ever need or want to have Logic's software monitoring enabled. At the very least it would generate a nasty feedback loop which could send the board into a tizzy (requiring a reboot of both the D8B and your ears). So if there's anything you get from the advice I've offered you, please take that one piece of advice. Leave software monitoring off always. There's simply no need for it with the configuration you're looking at.
For recording into Logic, you'd run one more optical cable from the output of one of the cards (specifically, DIO-8 #1) into an optical input of your interface. That way you can bus signal out of the Mackie and into Logic digitally. Of course, you could run cables from the 8 buss outs (and others) of the Mackie into any analog inputs that your interface may have. Digital will be cleaner, of course.
In this setup we're discussing, what would I actually be controlling through the hui? It sounds like I'd just set all logic's faders to 0db and mix everything in the d8b.
What is logic doing apart from a midi sequencer and a hdr?
It's starting to sound like I'm nit going to need to control logic at all? My brain hurts!
You have two OPT-8 cards and an Analog I/O card. While the DIO-8 cards are in some minor ways more desirable, you won't have any real problems with the OPT's except.... you still need an interface to get audio out of Logic and into the board via those OPT's. More on that in a minute.
You also have the better motherboard and a lot of RAM with that unit, so that's great. You also have the MIDI breakout, great. Getting the monitor is a coup! All the FX, great. You'll only be able to run (I believe) two of the effects at once since you have only 1 UFX card but that's OK too. You can always buy another one and stick it in the card slot.
Now, to your post. What you'd be controlling with the HUI are Logic's channel faders. I think you'll find you won't actually end up leaving them at 0 dB, and of course by controlling them with the HUI that plan goes out the window (sorry to annoy you again LOL!)
But still, you need that interface to get audio from Logic to the board. By itself (or even with the Duet) your computer has only two outputs. If just the computer, you've got its "built in audio" system and that gives you a stereo analog output. Quality? "OK". With your Duet you get great quality audio, but again, only two channels of
analog audio. You need an
interface that's going to let you get multiple outputs from Logic into the board
digitally.
So yes, Logic's going to act as a MIDI sequencer and an HDR. But the Mackie will be your preamp, your method of monitoring whatever you're recording, mixer for multiple outputs from Logic (again, provided you get that interface I keep nagging you about), and so on.
Yes, re the interface, I also have an M-Audio FireWire 410. Will this help for the time being until I get a proper interface?
Thanks for the tip re getting another MFX cards. I didn't realise I'd be limited to 2 effects, so thanks.
I still don't understand why you would need to alter the channels in logic (except maybe once to get a rough level being sent to the d8b), unless you then route / bus (I'm not 100% sure of the term) multiple, processed channels (like multiple instruments) to a stereo channel, and pipe that into two channels of the d8b. In that case, I can see why you would need to mix the channels in logic, to create that stereo channel, which then ends up in the d8b ot be mixed with the rest?
Maybe this will all become clearer once I've got it up and running and start using it! Will report back!
Well, it all depends on how you implement the 410. If you're talking digital then you're limited to 2-channels of optical output (TOSLINK). Were it ADAT optical you'd be able to get 8 channels into the D8B, but alas this isn't the case. In short, the optical outs of the 410 are incompatible with the D8B.
You
could take the 8 analog outs of the 410 into eight of the Mackie's line inputs and then you'd be cooking with gas. I don't know how decent (or not) the audio quality is coming from the 410's analog outs, but it will certainly work. So that's 8 outputs, and then with the SPDIF output you get 10 outputs total from the 410.
You could also hook up 2 analog bus outs from the Mackie into two inputs of the 410. That's fine for recording one stereo signal into Logic at a time.
I have the d8b running, MIDI connected through the FireWire 410, plus I've put two analogue outs from the 410 to the first two line inputs on the d8b, just to get a sound out of it, and it's all working 🙂
I now even have it set up so I can control Logic's transport from the desk, so I'm very happy indeed.
What I need to do now, is go shopping for Audio Interfaces.
There is a chance I could swap my 2 x OPT-8 cards for 3 x DIO-8 cards (and part with some cash as well, obviously).
But regardless, I want to get 24 channels out of logic and into the d8b. I am happy with just two channels from the d8b into logic, so at the least, I'm going to need another OPT-8 card, I presume?
So :
1) What improvement would I get by swapping for DIO-8 cards instead of OPT-8?
2) Do I need to make the decision on either DIO-8 or OPT-8 before buying an audio inteface?
You'll see there that the OPT-8 cards have a wee bit less latency than the DIO's. While 3 samples may not seem much, why not go for the one that has the least?! 😉 (I had it backward in my mind when posting previously -- I thought it was the DIO-8's that had the better latency specs). Before committing, though, check the D8B forum for opinions/thoughts on which ones to get.
But one thing I would not do is mix and match them. Either go with 3 DIO's or 3 OPT-8's.
But regardless, I want to get 24 channels out of logic and into the d8b. I am happy with just two channels from the d8b into logic, so at the least, I'm going to need another OPT-8 card, I presume?
To get 24 channels out of Logic digitally you'll need another OPT-8 card.
