Netflix pausing/buffering issues

Hey all!

I bought my apple tv yesterday, mainly for the purposes of watching netflix, so my parents can have the wii back. Everything works fine, youtube, flicker, itunes and so forth, but then when I would try to watch an episode of tv on netflix, every one to two mins it would pause for 30ish seconds and have the spinning wheel going, like it was buffering.

Has anyone else had these issues? If so, how do you fix it?

Thanks!

Posted on Oct 17, 2010 7:50 AM

Reply
728 replies

Jun 13, 2011 10:44 PM in response to Bob H.

i do not think it went away. i am constantly having issues like


Netflix unavailable yet my PC works fine and has NEVER had an issue, but I would rather watch netflix on my 60" tv verse my 24 inch computer ,monitor.


toight i had the above issue and now after rebooting my ATV2 it will not even let me login


i get


unable to sign in

(114:503)


I login and out of Netflix on my PC no problems. I even changed the password still no love.


all these problems started with one of the updates, this is my 1st apple product (personally) and so far i will never buy another one


hope this problem goes away soon, other wise i will be hooking my laptop up to myu tv and using that as my netflix player, at least i know it will never have an issue


Also i startedd having buffering issues in netflix tonight as well could not play anything without pauses, was very annoying

Jun 13, 2011 11:41 PM in response to RebeccaA

Occasionally I've had to re-login to Netflix. But tonight I hit a brick wall after multiple attempts, resetting ATV2, reloading the software, unplugging etc. Alway end with the error...


unable to sign in

(114:503)


I can login fine over my MacBookPro and Safari to the Netflix site... so I know the password is fine. I even changed it and still can login/logoff with computer but not with ATV2


So I changed my wireless connection and now have

"Unable to sign in

<?xml version="1.0" standalone="yes"?>


<status>

<status_code>401</status_code>

<message>Authorization failed</message>>

</status>

(106:0)


I HOPE THAT SOME APPLE AND NETFLIX DEVELOPMENT TEAM GUYS READ THIS... I no longer have ANY access to Netflix via ATV2!

Jun 14, 2011 5:57 AM in response to james243

While we are waiting for a fix (no, it isn't fixed yet), here are two analogies that might help people understand the behaviour they see.


First, picture that Netflix content is geographically distributed on many, many servers of three types of colors: red, green, and blue. Also, there are not equal percentages of each color. The ATV works fine when the content comes from a green or blue server, but buffers when it comes from a red server. When you want to watch a show, and it is a very popular one, it is likely cached on servers of all three colors. Netflix assigns you a server based on where the content is cached and your geographical location. If you are unlucky, you get assigned a red server, and your content buffers and is unwatchable. However, if you try again sometime later, you might be assigned a green or blue server, and it plays fine. If you are lucky the first time, it comes from a green or blue server, and there is no problem. If you watch an unpopular show, it might only be cached on a red server, in which case it is going to be impossible to watch. The randomness to this process under the covers means that it is very difficult to know if things are now fixed, and any tweaks we make like changing wireless channels might look like a fix, but are really just a luckier roll of the dice (but the luck streak will end).


Second, to understand why the ATV buffers, picture an auto assembly line in the old days. Manufacturers built up huge parts inventories (i.e. a buffer), and therefore could absorb hiccups in the supply chain, but they paid a big economic cost for this. Now, with just-in-time manufacturing, costs are reduced, but any hiccup in the supply chain stops production. This is what happened in the aftermath of the earthquake/tsunami in Japan. Well, Apple is using a very efficient adaptive bit rate scheme (probably the future for all), which gets just the right number of picture bits it needs to maintain picture quality, meaning it minimizes both the network bandwidth and buffer size it needs. But, this also means it can't absorb big hiccups to the bit supply. The "red servers" that I described above are giving quite a hiccup. The number of lost packets, timeouts, retransmissions, etc. lead to tens of packets a minute taking longer than 1.5 seconds to arrive, a lifetime in network time. When this happens, the ATV gives up, closes the connection, and then reopens a new one (but interestingly, usually back to the same red server). This combination of a trickle of packets, connection teardown, connection setup takes about 20-30 seconds, and we see this as "buffering", which is really a minsnomer because there really isn't much of a buffer. But, since the ATV goes back to the same red server, this "buffering" cycle goes on and on.


If you have read this far, you might just ask "Why doesn't Netflix just stop using the red servers with the ATV?", which is exactly what I proposed to Apple for the interm. Also, I am being careful here not to blame the red server vendor (yet), because it might turn out that there is something along the route to those servers, or at the ATV interface, that causes problems with the red servers, but isn't directly the red server vendor's "fault".

Jun 14, 2011 6:27 AM in response to The GreyOne

Looks like whatever they were doing was to the server that only affected ATV2?!?!/ My login problems from last night are not gone this morning..


***,, It would be nice if Netflix.ca would post when they aare working on things that will affect the ATV2 or whatever. I am getting tired of the problems with netflix


bnut as of 7am MST i can log in with my ATV2 and i never rebooted from the night before i left it on the sign in problem page.

Jun 14, 2011 7:14 AM in response to Bradley Rubin

Bradley


Thanks for your help and your great posts. I have a couple of questions. The othe night I purchased my first HD Movie on the ATV2. I was surprised to find that it was not ready instantly but told me it would be ready to watch in over an hour! What is going on during this time?


I decided to then wait and play the movie the next day. It played flawlessly. No delays. No buffering errors. Does the entire film getp stored on ATV2? How much memory does ATV2 have?


In regard to my Netflix streaming .... I have all the problems you all mention in this thread. Sometimes I switch off to watch the video on my TIVO which is connected to the same TV. And sometimes it is OK on TIVO while not on ATV. but maybe this is one of the throws of the dice


Larry

Jun 14, 2011 7:39 AM in response to lreinstein

Did you run a bandwidth test at this time? It sounds like it was network slowdown like you get when you use a cable modem at peak times. You can test your bandwidth using http://www.speedtest.net. I have FiOS and have never seen any delay over 10 seconds.


lreinstein wrote:


Bradley


Thanks for your help and your great posts. I have a couple of questions. The othe night I purchased my first HD Movie on the ATV2. I was surprised to find that it was not ready instantly but told me it would be ready to watch in over an hour! What is going on during this time?


I decided to then wait and play the movie the next day. It played flawlessly. No delays. No buffering errors. Does the entire film getp stored on ATV2? How much memory does ATV2 have?


In regard to my Netflix streaming .... I have all the problems you all mention in this thread. Sometimes I switch off to watch the video on my TIVO which is connected to the same TV. And sometimes it is OK on TIVO while not on ATV. but maybe this is one of the throws of the dice


Larry

Jun 14, 2011 8:36 AM in response to lreinstein

Good questions.


First, my red/green/blue/automaker analogy only applies to Netflix, and only applies to the actual movie content streaming part of the process. There are other mechanisms/servers used to sign on to Netflix, to get the little images of the movies for the user interface, to get your instant queue, etc. Interestingly, the ATV even talks to an Amazon EC2 server for some of this non-streaming support.


iTunes movies appear to use a different streaming model than Netflix, analogous to the "old auto manufacturer who builds up inventory" part of my story. In this case, the content is extensively buffered in the ATV and you can't watch it until there is sufficient content in the buffer to allow you to watch it at full quality, without buffering. The time is takes before you can start to watch a movie is therefore very dependent on your internet bandwidth and can range from seconds to hours. If you don't have a lot of bandwidth, then you could wait a long time for an HD movie to get to the watchable point because you consume bits so much faster than they come to your home. In this case, the Netflix/iTunes tradeoff is a "start right away, compromise on picture quality" vs. "delay the start, but maximize picture quality" situation. If you have more bandwidth, then the two models start to look more similar to the user.


As far as I can tell, it is Netflix that is making the red/green/blue server assignment (and these server families are run by three different third-parties). I have not taken a network trace with iTunes content, so I don't know if it also relies on one of these third-parties, or uses an Apple or someone else's servers.


For iTunes content, the ATV needs a buffer at least big enough to hold a full HD movie, and I think that it can hold several, so the buffer size is probably in the small number of GB.


Your TIVO with Netflix support is likely working when the ATV is not because it is going to a green or blue server, or maybe a red server with a different streaming protocol. My Roku, for example, always goes to a "green" server, and does not use an adaptive streaming protocol, but instead streams at full blast, building up a buffer of content.

Jun 14, 2011 9:06 AM in response to craigmag143

Thanks, but I won't accept the kudos until the problem is actually fixed!


This problem is at the intersection between three different companies, one of whom (the "red" third-party CDN) is invisible to the end user, which makes it extremely frustrating for the consumer looking for help. Also, it isn't happening with every ATV-Netlfix user, which tells me that there is still a piece missing from my story. Perhaps, in certain geographies, the ATV just isn't assigned a server from a red family server? Perhaps, the red company has a bad networking component, such as a router, that only affects some who are connecting to it? I would welcome any speculation on this puzzle piece from the networking geeks!

Jun 14, 2011 9:21 AM in response to Bradley Rubin

I'm not networking geek, but I have been experimenting with different parameters. The only new thing I have to add is this: the other night I was watching a t.v. series on Netflix via the ATV2. There were no pauses during the first episode viewed. The second one almost immediately had problems. Nothing else had changed between viewing the first and second episode. I then unplugged the ATV2, restarted it, loaded the second episode and had no problems. Don't know what it means, but thought it worth noting. Thanks to everyone for not letting this issue go unaddressed!

Jun 14, 2011 9:30 AM in response to ursusmaritimus

Every time you hit "Play" on a movie or an individual episode, the dice roll. In your case, the first episode came up green or blue and played fine. The second episode came up red and buffered. The second time you tried to view the second episode, you rolled green or blue and it played fine.


Note, that if it is a fairly obscure program, it might only be cached on red servers, so each roll of the dice could come up red, and it will consistently buffer no matter what you do.

Jun 14, 2011 4:31 PM in response to RebeccaA

Here is what I noticed with my Apple TVs. I have 3 ATVs, all 3 connected via wireless N. 1 works and has always worked the past 6 months for streaming Netflix only. The other 2 ATVs stopped working for netflix altogether just a previously describe in this thread.


All 3 devices were purchased at the same time around 4-6 months ago. So why did one work and not the others?


Overview:


ATV 1 - Latest Patch. Complete Setup with iTunes, HomeSharing, and the whole nine yards. Stopped working with Netflix

ATV 2 - Same as ATV1 with the addition of parental controls to block purchases. Stopped working with Netflix.

ATV3 - Latest Patch. Partial Setup. I only set up wireless connection and configured Netflix App. Always worked and still works.


Result


ATV3 Netflix works because I never configured iTunes on ATV3

ATV1 - Reloaded device. Connected to internet and Configured Netflix only. Netflix works for past 2 days. No errors of any kind. (Just like every other non-ATV netflix device on my network)

ATV2 - When I get home tonight I will try a reset and not a reload and not configure iTunes to test my working theory.


Working Theory


I think Apple's iCloud development may have something to do with the issues we are having. They just announced iCloud and have probably been pushing code to our ATVs to support the new iCloud. "It worked fine until I updated to the latest patch".


When we log into iTunes from our ATVs, my guess is the ATV is somehow synching its configuration information with the iCloud. This in turn is proabably causing some geographical confusion for Netflix.


If Netflix thinks our ATVs live in the "cloud" then it will probably be hit or miss for them to deliver content to us from the appropriate geographical location or at least from a server closest to our ATV.


It is very possible I could be way off base here. I do know that if you don't configure iTunes on the ATV, Netflix will work perfectly, (assuming your home network worked in the first place)


It makes sense if you think about it. Apple got into some hot issues with keeping track of geographical locations on the iOS (iPhone, iPod Touch, etc). I would think the iCloud programmers would take a lesson from those concerns and thought it would be best not to track geographical locations without understanding the ramifications it could have with location based services such as Netflix.


Just my thoughts. I'm going to back to lurking for a while. Thanks all.

Jun 14, 2011 5:13 PM in response to johnode

Netflix (or any other place that you connect to on the Internet) can get a rough idea of your geographic location from your IP address. It doesn't use any GPS/WiFi access point location data unveiled in the recent iOS privacy issue (it doesn't have GPS, and the scheme has to work with wired-only networks). I can monitor all the IP addresses that the ATV connects to, and I see no sign of anything that looks like an iCloud server, although one of these months I am sure that we will get an update that adds this support.


I am interested in your configuration of 3 ATVs. Can you verify that all are at firmware level 4.2.2? Can you be really specific about what exactly what does and does not work for Netflix on each of the ATVs (i.e. does it login? Does it display your Instant Queue? Does it play a movie sometimes without buffering and at other times buffer?)


Netflix has a limit to the number of devices supported on one account. It used to be 5 up until a few days ago, and now it is 50. I would for sure try Netflix again on all three, and also check the Manage Devices page in the Netflix web interface to make sure all three are recorded there too. I would also try about 5 movies on each (you only need to run it for about 5 minutes for each movie to know if you have the buffering issue or not) to get a good sampling of the behaviour.

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Netflix pausing/buffering issues

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