Apple Event: May 7th at 7 am PT

Looks like no one’s replied in a while. To start the conversation again, simply ask a new question.

Level 1

5 points

Please explain Time Machine differences

In order to understand what I'm about to say here, please look back at my previous post called "First Time Machine backup not the same size as my computers HD".

I just did a size compare between each folder at the root level of my Macintosh HD with each folder at the root level of my Time Machine backup of my computer. Here are the results:

*Macintosh HD (On my computer)*
Applications: 5.03 GB
Desktop Items: 68.8 MB
Developer: 2.44 GB
Games: 7.83 GB
Library: 7.21 GB
System: 4.63 GB
User Guides And Information: 4 KB
Users: 16.44 GB

*Macintosh HD (On my external USB 2.0 drive-backup)*
Applications: 5.03 GB
Desktop Items: 68.8 MB
Developer: 2.45 GB
Games: 7.83 GB
Library: 7.41 GB
System: 4.62 GB
User Guides And Information: 4 KB
Users: 15.83 GB

My computer's hard drive is a 160 GB drive but actual capacity is 148.73 GB. I have used about 125.27 GB of it. And I just finished removing lots of stuff that I didn't need or had already backed up. The current configuration I have is what I want Time Machine to backup. I ran Time Machine 2 nights ago and it supposedly finished successfully. There were no errors or anything. After the backup finished, the size of my Macintosh HD on my external drive was 44.69 GB. Can anyone explain the differences? Can anyone tell me how all those numbers above add up to 44.69 GB? Because, when I add them up, I get a number a lot higher than 44.69. I am still trying to figure this out. I want to MAKE SURE everything is backed up before I go wiping my computers hard drive and installing MacOS 10.6 Snow Leopard. Thanks for any help anyone can give me. I am currently running MacOS 10.5.8 Leopard.

MacBook, Mac OS X (10.5.8), 2.2 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 2 GB of Memory

Posted on Oct 23, 2010 10:06 AM

27 replies

Pondini

Level 8

38,863 points

Oct 27, 2010 7:33 AM in response to Brian30

Brian30 wrote:
. . .
The process with the error condition is still active it seems. After I deleted most of the files that were in the "asl" folder, there were a couple that couldn't be deleted because they were in use. I restarted my computer and then was able to delete those couple that were in the trash still. I then went back into the "asl" folder, and yes, more had been created. 5 more to be exact.

That's not a problem -- there should be +*a few recent+* folders there, not dozens taking up GBs of space.

Pondini

Level 8

38,863 points

Oct 27, 2010 7:56 AM in response to Brian30

Brian30 wrote:
. . .
I have posted a picture here of my Console windows. One of them shows the size of my system.log. Says its 5.5 MB in size.

In that small sample alone are three similar problems, that explain at least part of the huge log files. All three look like apps that you tried to delete, but didn't get everything -- so they keep starting, not finding a file they need, failing, and restarting. Over and over and over.

They are: +*timbuktu, CheckUpAgent,+* and Mozy. There may well be others if you look at more of the log.

When an app comes with it's own installer, it often puts other things besides the app in your /Applications folder. If you only delete the app, and not those other things, this is the sort of thing that can happen. Many of those installers have "uninstall" options; find and use them. If you can't find them, reinstall the app and use the uninstaller. If that doesn't work, try one of the 3rd-party uninstallers. One I see mentioned often is AppZapper, but I have no experience with any of them. Check the +Using Snow Leopard+ forum or MacUpdate.com for more.

Yes, I do shut down (power off) my Mac every night. Unless I am allowing it to do a Time Machine backup, then I leave it on. Or if I am downloading a huge file from online but that very rarely happens. I did not realize there were maintenance scripts that ran between 3:15 AM and 5:30 AM. This is the first time I have heard of that. Maybe I could mark it in my computers calendar to leave my computer on overnight on the 1st of every month. I could even set up a reminder for it too. But just out of curiosity, how do you run them manually? I will try to remember to make that note in my calendar once I have upgraded to MacOSX 10.6.

There's a Terminal command, and some 3rd-party utilities will run it, also. But the easiest thing is to just leave your Mac running once a month or so.

Once you're on Snow Leopard, you can just let it sleep. On Snow Leopard only, they'll run shortly after it wakes up.

Also, there's no reason to erase your HD before installing Snow Leopard. That just risks causing more problems. But you should be sure to have good backups, just in case.

jsd2

Level 5

6,245 points

Oct 27, 2010 8:54 AM in response to Brian30

There can be processes installed by 3rd-party software which are supposed to run in the background. The instructions to the system to run these processes are called Launch Agents or Launch Daemons, but the processes themselves are kept separately from these instructions. If the 3rd party software is incompletely uninstalled, or else damaged in some way, you can end up with an active Launch Agent or Launch Daemon which says to the system:"run that process over there", and the system responding "I can't find it over there, but I'll check back in a few seconds." This error condition gets logged, and can continue indefinitely, generating big log files.

The above system log entries that you posted suggest to me that
1) There may be a launch agent or launch daemon named com.netopia.timbuktu.pro.host.plist which is looking for an application named Timbuctu Pro, and cannot find it, and

2) There may be launch agent or launch daemon named com.mozy.backup.plist which is looking for an application named MozyHome, and cannot find it, and

3) There may be a launch agent or launch daemon named com.app4mac.CheckUpAgent.plist which is looking for an Application named CheckUp., and cannot find it.

Are you still running Timbuctu Pro, Mozy, or CheckUp. If not, did you try to uninstall these applications in the past?

Take a look in these two places:
HD>Library>LaunchAgents
and
HD>Library>LaunchDaemons
for these files:
com.netopia.timbuktu.pro.host.plist
com.mozy.backup.plist
com.app4mac.CheckUpAgent.plist

Do you see them there?

Brian30 Author

Level 1

5 points

Oct 28, 2010 12:37 AM in response to Pondini

I know that when programs have their own installers, they often times install files all over the computer and not just the applications folder. This just happens to be something I tend to forget about. Not on purpose though. It just tends to slip my mind most of the time. Unless a program I have has its own uninstaller, I will usually just delete the program from my Applications folder thinking that is all I need to do. But since you reminded me of it, I will try to remember next time I need to delete an application. I did delete Timbuktu and Mozy off of my computer. I don't recall installing a program called CheckUp but apparently it was installed at one point. I went into Macintosh HD --> Library --> LaunchAgents and into Macintosh HD --> Library -->LaunchDaemons and deleted the files in there that pertained to Timbuktu, CheckUpAgent, and Mozy. That's thanks to jsd2's post. He told me to do that. I am hoping now that I have officially removed those programs from my computer. The only way to be 100% certain though would be to do what you said. Re-install those programs again and then use its own uninstaller or a 3rd party uninstaller program. I don't have much experience with 3rd party uninstallers either but I did download one called AppCleaner. It was a free one. I noticed the one you mentioned was shareware. So either I wouldn't have access to all the features, or I would have access to them all but maybe only have a limited amount of time to use the program.

I did download 2 3rd party applications for running those scripts. Thought I'd try them out just for now. One being MacJanitor_1.3 and the other is Yasu. I have not yet installed Snow Leopard. Trying to get my computer "in order" before doing so.

You said "Once you're on Snow Leopard, you can just let it sleep.". In most cases, if its going to be just a few short hours before I use my computer again, I don't have a problem putting my computer to sleep. But if its going to be several hours or more, even a couple days before I use my computer again, I prefer to shut it down. I think I had read somewhere that if your going to use your computer a few hours later (maybe 2-3 hours), that its okay to let your computer sleep. But if its going to be a lot more then that, its recommended that you shut it down. Not 100% sure of this but pretty confident its the reason, my wife's computer's hard drive failed on her because she would put her computer to sleep and then not use it for sometimes an entire week at a time. You can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think its hard on the hard drive for it to be in sleep mode for long, long periods of time.

"Also, there's no reason to erase your HD before installing Snow Leopard. That just risks causing more problems." What kind of problems are we talking about here? In the past, I have backed up my files and then erased my internal hard drive and installed a new operating system. Its worked fine for me. The only thing that may be considered a "downside" to that is then I have to copy back over any preferences and what not for a application I'm using. For example, I use the Mail program that's provided in MacOS X. I like to copy back over the Mail settings folder so that I don't have to go and set it all up again. Also, it has all my mailboxes in that folder and I can regain my access to those folders from within Mail. Same thing with my web browser. The settings folder would have all my current bookmarks in it and any special settings I currently have. My reason for wanting to erase my computer's hard drive is so that I can start fresh again. Like having a brand new computer all over again. 🙂

Having Time Machine backup my computer, that would be considered having a "good backup" right?

Here's another glance at my Console and how it looks after deleting those files inside the LaunchAgents and LaunchDaemons folders.

!http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa125/BrianG27/Computer%20Information/Consol eMessages2.png!

Brian30 Author

Level 1

5 points

Oct 28, 2010 1:00 AM in response to jsd2

I have stopped running Timbuktu, MozyHome, and CheckUp. I don't recall even installing a program called CheckUp but apparently I did at one point. Otherwise it would never have shown up in the Console. When I went to uninstall these programs, I obviously didn't do it right. I had just gone into my applications folder and deleted it from there thinking that was it. It slipped my mind that there were still related files elsewhere on my computer. Back when I was running MacOS 9 or earlier, I found it easier to find all the related files to a program and then delete them. But with MacOS X, its a more complex operating system and therefore more difficult to find all the files on your own. And not all programs offer a uninstaller of their own. I downloaded a 3rd party uninstaller called AppCleaner that should do it for me hopefully.

I did go into those folders you mentioned and you were right on the money. I found those exact file names inside both of those folders. I deleted all 3 of them since I no longer have those programs on my computer. I went back into my Console afterwords and I could not see those processes anymore. Here's another glance at it:

!http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa125/BrianG27/Computer%20Information/Consol eMessages2.png!

jsd2

Level 5

6,245 points

Oct 28, 2010 5:04 AM in response to Brian30

You should also restart if you haven't already done so.

The Console messages look much better - your logs now show entries every few minutes, not every few seconds. They seem to pertain to an unrelated issue with MobilMe syncing, possibly an inability to sync automatically because of a network issue, though I'm not sure about this. I don't think this necessarily need attention, since the entries are not being written frequently enough to rapidly generate big log files. It is still important that you allow your computer to run its overnight maintenance scripts from time to time, as Pondini suggested.

Since the log messages no longer show any issues originating from Mozy, Timbuktu, or CheckUp, I don't think at this point that it's necessary to re-install them and then uninstall them again. In the future, though, always use an app's own uninstaller for apps that were installed via an install package - just trashing the app file can lead to trouble, as you now know. Third-party uninstallers are better than nothing, but they often miss things such as orphan Launch Agents.

Unless you are having an ongoing problem at this point, I would not re-install the OS or wipe the HD and restore from your backup. A backup should work properly, but there is always a chance it won't, so why risk your data unless it is necessary? I would just use and enjoy your computer - you may find it works better now that it is not writing all those extra log files.

jsd2

Level 5

6,245 points

Oct 28, 2010 6:25 AM in response to jsd2

Ah - I had forgotten that you are currently running Leopard, and now want to install Snow Leopard, not reinstall your current OS. I still wouldn't erase the HD first - I agree with Pondini.

Pondini

Level 8

38,863 points

Oct 28, 2010 7:58 AM in response to Brian30

Brian30 wrote:
. . .
I don't recall installing a program called CheckUp but apparently it was installed at one point.

I've seen some posts that CheckUpAgent sometimes gets installed +*along with+* other apps, as a "helper," so you may not have known it.

I am hoping now that I have officially removed those programs from my computer. The only way to be 100% certain though would be to do what you said. Re-install those programs again and then use its own uninstaller or a 3rd party uninstaller program.

According to your logs, those messages no longer appear, so you're done. By the way, if you want to post logs, they're much more readable if you copy and paste a portion directly, rather than posting an image.

You said "Once you're on Snow Leopard, you can just let it sleep.". In most cases, if its going to be just a few short hours before I use my computer again, I don't have a problem putting my computer to sleep. But if its going to be several hours or more, even a couple days before I use my computer again, I prefer to shut it down.

Apple recommends (in the small manual that comes with every new Mac) that you let it sleep unless it won't be used for "several days" for a desktop Mac, or "a day or two" for a laptop. See [Sleeping your Mac vs. Powering it Down|http://web.me.com/pondini/AppleTips/Sleep.html].

"Also, there's no reason to erase your HD before installing Snow Leopard. That just risks causing more problems." What kind of problems are we talking about here?

Spending a whole lot of time copying and/or re-entering things, possibly missing something or making a mistake. The Snow Leopard installer is greatly improved over previous versions (and even those worked fine in nearly all cases). Apple has even removed the +Erase and Install+ and +Archive and Install+ options -- you just do an Install and it replaces the current version of OSX.

My reason for wanting to erase my computer's hard drive is so that I can start fresh again. Like having a brand new computer all over again. 🙂

There really is no reason to do that. Just install OSX. 40 minutes or so later, you're done.

Having Time Machine backup my computer, that would be considered having a "good backup" right?

Yup.

Brian30 Author

Level 1

5 points

Oct 28, 2010 11:05 AM in response to jsd2

I have done a restart since cleaning up all the log files and the files inside LaunchAgents and LaunchDaemons. I did notice that small issue with MobilMe syncing. I was kind of wondering about it but I am not going to dwell on it. As you said, the entries are not being written frequently enough to rapidly generate big log files. So, I agree with you that it doesn't really warrant attention.

I will definitely be taking your advice on using an app's own uninstaller to uninstall the program in the future. Don't really want to have to deal with all this all over again.

Now that we have solved this log file problem, running Time Machine to backup my computer should work fine now. And as far as installing Snow Leopard, I think I will take your and Pondini's advice on that too and just install it. Not erase my hard drive.

Pondini said that once Snow Leopard is installed, I can just let my computer sleep and then when I wake it up, those maintenance scripts will run shortly after.

I want to Thank You for all your help you have given me. I know for a fact that I never would have figured this all out on my own. Now I know where to go when I am having issues. 🙂

Brian30 Author

Level 1

5 points

Oct 28, 2010 11:26 AM in response to Pondini

Next time I am having issues and am needing to show what's going inside Console, I will try to remember to just copy and paste a small portion of it. I just assumed posting an image was the only way since that's how jsd2 was doing it.

Thanks for that link called Sleeping your Mac vs. Powering it Down. I read over it already. Its very helpful.

I did not realize Apple erased the erase and install option for Snow Leopard. But then again, I haven't looked at it yet. Since it does indeed replace the current version of OSX, then you are right. There really is no need to erase my hard drive first. That was also one of my reasons for thinking I needed to erase my hard drive first. Now that we have solved these issues I was having and my computer is running smoother now (seems to start up & shut down faster now), I think I am finally ready to install Snow Leopard. Just have to run Time Machine first and get my files backed up. Then I should be good to go. It'll be nice to finally have some free space back on my internal hard drive.

I want to Thank You for all your help you have given me. I know for a fact that I would never have figured it out on my own. Now I know where to go when I am having issues and need help with it. 🙂 Thanks again.

Pondini

Level 8

38,863 points

Oct 28, 2010 11:35 AM in response to Brian30

Brian30 wrote:
Next time I am having issues and am needing to show what's going inside Console, I will try to remember to just copy and paste a small portion of it. I just assumed posting an image was the only way since that's how jsd2 was doing it.

That's the only way to post a screen shot. Other things are much easier to do, and more readable, if you can just copy (portions) into a post.

Thanks again.

You're quite welcome. Glad it's all sorted out.

jsd2

Level 5

6,245 points

Oct 28, 2010 12:19 PM in response to Brian30

I'm glad to have been of help as well. 🙂
Good luck with the SL installation.

Please explain Time Machine differences