Airplay & downsampling

The premium Tidal music service plays 1411kbps, 16-bit/44.1 kHz FLAC and ALAC tracks which is supported by their app. If I have a modern day high end receiver with built-in AirPlay support, and I stream the Tidal app playback to it via AirPlay, does that mean that the receive will play back the audio at the full 1411kbps, 16-bit/44.1 kHz rate, with no downgrade at all to the quality? Since this rate is full CD quality, my goal is to be able to use the Tidal app to play back music on my system through the Marantz at full CD quality. Can I accomplish this by doing that? It seems so, considering that AirPlay supports 16-bit/44.1 kHz, but I'm not sure if that quality supported from the iPhone. Also I'm not sure if the signal stays that way all the way from the app, through AirPlay and thru the Marantz's processing.

Also, am I correct to assume that if I connect my iPhone to my receiver using a headphone to RCA output cable (red/white jacks), am I correct to assume that a fair amount of the quality gets lost (because I am thinking the iPhone headphone jack cannot handle that level of resolution - hence that's why it seems on paper that using AirPlay solves that).

Likewise - for those who don't have a receiver with built-in AirPlay - can they buy an Apple TV, output it via HDMI to their receiver, and get the full 1411kbps, 16-bit/44.1 kHz signal without any downgrade in quality? Thanks!

Hi,

I just came across this as I'm really torn as to which Amp/Receiver I'm going to buy.

I have it narrowed down to the Marantz NR1606 or the PM6005 (true 2 channel stereo).

Just some background tests I've done. I currently have a friends' Marantz NR1604 and can honestly say that when I use my old crappy RCA DVD player (digital out to NR1604) the sound is hands down better than any streaming airplay tests (ALAC files) I have done. The NR1604 has built in Airplay.

From my research I feel the PM6005 component would be a better amplifier but lacks the airplay feature. I'd have to go the airport express route (limited to 16bit - toslink to PM6005) or run a long toslink to the amp (in my case I may have to run toslink (limited to 30' from what I've read) to coaxial)

Can you or anyone confirm iTunes/Airplay from my 2009 macbook pro can wirelessly send 24bit directly to the Marantz NR1604's built in airplay? (or is it 16bit)

Or only the Marantz NR7004 Network player(s) capable of receiving true 24bit wirelessly?

Overview/Please confirm:

1) Mac's can send 24bit over wifi?

2) Only certain Airplay devices (Marantz NA7004) can accept 24bit files (ALAC files of course)

As far as I know Airplay is only 16-bits, but it's possible that it's the receiving device that is the limitation rather than the signal itself. For instance, the 1st Generation AppleTVs could output 16/44 clean. This meant that if you extracted a DTS Music CD to iTunes in Lossless or WAV or AIFF that AppleTV could receive the DTS music intact and output it to the receiver and the DTS signal would be present and work as expected. If you try the same thing with a 2nd or 3rd generation AppleTV that is iOS based, it will only output the signal at 16/48 and that destroys the DTS signal (and according to some audio purists is not acceptable to them for audio playback). But I know Airplay is still sending the signal intact because if I used a 2nd Gen ATV to play a DTS file but tell it to output to my first gen AppleTV instead of its own outputs, the signal arrives intact to that unit. So clearly, the Airplay signal is not the reason it's outputting 16/48 instead of 16/44.

So then the question becomes whether Airplay itself is limited in that regard or not and it's harder to tell because my testing of 1st Gen AppleTV hardware using XBMC instead and just regular SMB or NFS to transfer the files results in 16-bit audio output regardless according to my receiver (the frequency can change, though) so that tells me the AppleTV hardware itself or one of its drivers is the limitation (The first gen is running on an OS X Tiger variant so it's pretty old, relatively speaking). I have seen a DTS encoded demo file somehow convey 24-bit to my receiver, though in XBMC on AppleTV hardware, but someone else did the encoding (i.e. to encode audio files yourself in DTS requires their commercial encoder) so I can't say how they did it and I think it only ran in XBMC, not the AppleTV interface itself. To me, it's not a viable option either way since I can't encode DTS myself.

I realize I haven't really answered your question since your scenario involves a receiver and it's not clear to me whether the AppleTV hardware was the limitation or the Airplay signal when I used Apple Lossless encoding. But someone I know has an Airplay receiver by Yamaha and it has a bug in it its implementation that puts "clicks" and other sounds in the audio sometimes. I guess it was a known Airplay bug from a couple of years ago and Apple fixed it in the next release. The problem is that many companies never released an update to their receiver firmware to fix it so while this person doesn't notice it, I do and use her AppleTV instead to listen to music on that same receiver since that glitch drives me nuts (I've tried updating her firmware but they fixed other things, not updated the Airplay code). One would "assume" that newer receivers don't have that issue, but who knows, I'm just letting you know about her problem so you can be cautious either way.

Dear Taut99,

This thread has been running since since 2011 and I feel your post is the closest to an answer based on actual data. The rest are answers that are suppositions or other questions. (Also credit to at least 2 folks who used apps to determine what bit rate was actually being shipped around over Airplay.)

Apple,

You have great products from a usability perspective, but don't seem to want to answer the questions of the significant audiophile community that could help drive your audio quality. Just add some data to your specs for iPhone, AppleTV, iPods, iPads, and Macs. Are there complete specs published somewhere that I can not find?

You are expecting your Community to enlighten each other but, as you see here, you have the blind leading the blind.

Please?

Taut99 that was (IMO) an excellent explanation of how to achieve a higher than 16/44 to stream within the Apple architecture. You explained it couched in terms most of us could understand including what you did and why.

I am not sure i would ever be able to hear a difference between bit perfect 16/44 vs bit perfect "high res" on my current equipment (iMac w SSD using ITunes/Bit Perfect/Airport Extreme wired Cat 6 cables directly to Airport Express (in living room) then via toslink from the AE to a Middle of road NAD integrated amp with PSB speakers) but your post gives me reason to believe i may be able to - if ever i am in the position to upgrade my amp/speaker combo.

I actually have just now acquired a second hand Peachtree DAC IT that i am going to place between my iMac and the audioengine 5 speakers (bedroom) from either the usb or headphone/digital out. But i digress...

. I have only one question for you. Your high end system 2 indicates you employ an Airport Express for whole house sync. Since the AE is only capable of 16/44 i am assuming the downstream from that point is NOT considered "high def".???? And as a follow up i have read posts from numerous self described audiophiles that the evil monster Jitter is rampant on AE and once present CANNOT BE GOTTEN RID OF and will cause highly detrimental effects on SQ. How have you addressed that??

Thank you again for taking time to answer a question i feel sure many who enjoy using the Apple architecture for music enjoyment have had for quite some time.

The AirPlay audio protocol specifies a 16-bit stereo Apple Lossless stream at a 44.1 kHz sample rate. So, anything that uses it, such as an Airport or Airfoil or Airplay-enabled devices will be using the same stream. I don't know where the downsampling occurs but I would imagine it is happening in iTunes or-- more precise--in Core Audio.