How to install 7.5.3 (or other 7.x) on a Mac SE?

Question

How to install 7.5.3 (or other 7.x) on a Mac SE?

Hi all

I rescued this Mac SE from being trashed... it's working fine and has System 7.1 on it. I even managed to get a LocalTalk to Ethernet bridge, but AppleTalk doesn't seem to work properly. It says it can't be loaded when I try to activate it, and when I try to start FileSharing Monitor, it's telling me something about AppleShare server software being installed. No idea, what this is and how I can get rid of it (my first Mac was a PM 7200 with 7.5.3).

I'd like to install a new system, 7.5.3 if this is possible, or some older 7.x. I found the 7.5.3 software, but it only comes in packages of 1.4MB, and the SE only takes 800K floppies... anything I could do there? Or shall I go for 7.0.1 instead? I found 800K images for this system.

Now, no matter which system I'm finally going to install, how do I go about it? My old 7200 already had a CD drive, and my computer before that was a C64... so I don't know how this is supposed to work. The HD seems to be partitioned, which I don't like too much. Can I boot from a floppy and format the HD? Or should I leave it as it is?
Could someone talk me through it, please? I still have the 7200, I could use it for making the floppies, and I also have an USB floppy drive (which maybe won't write to 800K disks, I didn't try yet).

Yet another question: I also got hold of a Powerbook 170 which is currently running system 7.0.1. I managed to connect it to my network, and it can even see my G5 (running 10.4.3), but when I try to connect, it tells me that the AFP protocols are not compatible - sniff! Anything I could do to get this to work? A colleague of mine suggested trying FTP... but MacTCP came only later, and isn't this required for using Fetch or some other FTP software?

Thanks for any ideas, Tina

G5 Dual 1.8, 1.5GB RAM, 23'' Cinema Display, Mac OS X (10.4.3), iMac G4/800, iBook G3/700, iBook G3/366

Posted on Dec 16, 2005 9:26 AM

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Answer 1

Dec 16, 2005 12:07 PM in response to Tina Siegenthaler

Hi Tina
Lot of questions
1)You should first check the built-in memory before upgrading OS.My SE has got 2,5 MB and works with 7.0 including LocalTalk for Filesharing.
2) Did you get a Hardware or Software LocalTalk to Ethernet-Software LocalTalk Ethernet bridge works only up to 7.6.1-can't connect to Internet at all! The Hardware LocalTalk to Ethernet I've got(Farallon EtherPrint) isn't able to connect over TCP/IP.
3) IF you want to install 7.5.3(needs 8 MB RAM I believe) you can download the complete System in one Folder, transport this folder unexpanded to your SE HD via LocalTalk
connection/FileSharing-and expand there with Stuffit 4.0.1,
this Stuffit-Version can be installed via PC/MacDisk.Exe and 1,44 MB Drive only.You can try to copy Stuffit via LocalTalk to SE from 7200(accepts PC Disks)
IF you can download on PC/you can burn a CD with NERO,slow Speed,ISO 9660 und transport this CD to your 7200.IF you can burn this CD likewise(unexpanded,without forks) you can download on a MAC
4) FileSharing with 10.4 Macs isn't possible(therefore not the correct AFP-protocol)-but you can connect(using EThernet to AppleTalk-Hardware. You may look at:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=301183
http://homepage.mac.com/car1son/os9xnet_nfilesharing.html
You may search for Ed Hurtley in older software; he has connected with likewise systems.
HTH

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Answer 2

Dec 17, 2005 4:27 AM in response to AppleIIFreak

Hi AppleIIFreak

Thanks for your answers!

1 & 3) My SE has only 4MB of RAM, so I will stay with 7.0 or 7.1 for the moment. At least until I can find some old RAM to upgrade it.
2) I have a hardware brigde. It's a Focus EtherLAN Print Plus; I also have an Micro Asantéprint (not tried with that yet) and an Asanté EN/SC adapter; but with that I would first need to get the right SCSI adapter, and the power supply is also missing. So I'll stay with one of the LocalTalk-EN bridge for the moment.

The problem is that with the current 7.1 installed, I can't connect at all, since it refuses to activate AppleTalk.... so the first thing to try is to install the 7.0.1 I downloaded. It's in 800K images, so I should be able to get it on the SE via floppies. Can I just install it "over" the 7.1? Say, rename the 7.1 System folder to "System old", and then install 7.0?

Thanks again, Tina

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Answer 3

Dec 18, 2005 1:38 AM in response to Tina Siegenthaler

Hi Tina
1)With 4 MB RAM you can install at least 7.5-checked that yesterday on my SE. Sorry for my fault!
IF I remember right my SE/Classic both had 7.1 and worked with AppleTalk/Filesharing. I shall install 7.1 again on SE to look after this-there is 7.0 which works fine even with IIgs filesharing.
"Install over,Changing Name of System Folder": I used Disk Tools Disk to downgrade to 7.0 with some problems pressing "C" with startup, to get the disk beeing startup system,initialized the HD ,copied System Folder to HD(after removing old to the trash),restarted,installed new system.
You may try your way-but as long as your System Folder is on the Startup device it's locked some way for changes like downgrading.
Sorry to be late-got kicked off yesterday from Forum-"connection refused".
Good luck
Rainer
PS: Hope Denis Eddy or Jan Hedlund will show up-that are the real experts-I'm just learning.

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Answer 4

Dec 18, 2005 2:27 PM in response to AppleIIFreak

Hi Rainer

Thanks again, you're really helping me a lot! I managed to initialize the HD using a floppy disk with HardDisk Toolkit (found by chance in a stack of old floppies...) and my old Syquest drive. The Apple Disk Tool disk didn't work; I could boot from the floppy, but SC HD Setup would always tell me that it found "no suitable disk on the SCSI port".
I copied the system (7.1) that was on the SE to a Syquest disk, and can now boot the SE from it. However, I wasn't able to install a new system on the SE yet. I downloaded the 800K images and put them on floppies using the 7200 and DiskCopy, but when I launch the installer, it crashes completely after a few seconds (have to switch the SE off). I'll try and make some new floppies, in case it's just a bad disk, but I'm not sure if this will help. I also have some old (original) 5.0 install floppies and these also crash when I try to run the installer.
I'm now thinking about installing a new system, maybe 7.5, onto a Syquest disk using the 7200, and then copy this system to the SE. Do you think this will work? Or will it installl the wrong components, since the install is done on a different model?

Tina

PS: Maybe I won't have too much time for playing around this week - christmas coming, lots of things to prepare... but I'll for sure be back in a week, I'll have some days off.

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Answer 5

Dec 19, 2005 11:21 AM in response to Tina Siegenthaler

Hi Tina
Just some more: You should use the original DSDD-disks(one-hole) for making 800K disk.
Hard Disk Tool Kit is a so-called third party HD-formatter.
Maybe therefore SC HD Setup won't work anymore.
You can copy the whole 7.5.3 in one folder unexpanded to the Syquest,copy to SE HD,run from there with Stuffit.

Not to forget:Merry Christmas and happy new year!
Rainer

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Answer 6

Dec 30, 2005 8:54 AM in response to AppleIIFreak

Did install 7.1 on my SE-contains everything necessary for Filesharing!
Installing 7.0:inserted DiskTools 7.0 before start,removed system folder from HD to trash,emptied trash,copied system folder from DiskTools Disk to HD,restarted,then run installation of 7.0-worked!
I've got the 7.0 on 800k disks now!
Happy new year

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Answer 7

Jan 14, 2006 6:38 AM in response to AppleIIFreak

I finally managed to get system 7.0 on the SE... it didn't want to install from the floppies, either it told me it couldn't find a suitable SCSI HD or it crashed while booting off the install disk. So I installed 7.0 on a SyQuest using my 7200, and after about 10 or 20 tries I got the SE to boot off a floppy and mount the SyQuest and could copy the system over.
Filesharing works now. I installed MacTCP and NCSA telnet, but I can't get a connection, neither on my local network nor to the outside. I'm using a Micro Asanteprint adapter - does anyone know if this works with TCP/IP? I've also got a SCSI-Ethernet adapter, maybe this will work better?

A completely different question: I was able to get hold of some RAM, 3x 4 RAM banks; among them are 4 original Apple 1MB SIMMs, I don't know about the others. I'm hoping on of those will be compatible with the SE... I managed to open the SE and to take out the logic board, but unfortunately, all 8 slots are already in use (I guess 8x 512MB)... and I couldn't get any of the banks out. I didn't want to use too much force, I'm VERY much afraid to damage the plastic slots or the banks themselves! Is there a trick?
It would be nice to have some more RAM, so I could run a web browser which is not possible at the moment.

Tina

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Answer 8

Jan 14, 2006 1:17 PM in response to Tina Siegenthaler

Happy new Year!
According to LOWENDMAC,Asante Microprint(the old ones) doesn't support TCP/IP.
http://lowendmac.com/network/bridge.shtml
Some more from search:
The Micro AsantéPrint(1994) is for printers only. LocalTalk computers are not supported for file sharing,it appears to only work for printers.Should be used with 10T -Base Ethernet only.
The SCSI-Adapter should work.
You may look at(for repair,RAM) for the SE(Maximum 4 MB in four slots!):
http://ccadams.org/se/
http://www.whoopis.com/computerrepair/MacintoshSE.pdf page 75 ff

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Answer 9

Jan 14, 2006 2:26 PM in response to AppleIIFreak

Happy new year to you, too!

I have now system 7.1 installed which works fine. File sharing works, too, just not TCP/IP. According to what you told me, this will not work with the LocalTalk/Ethernet adapter, so I'll stay with AppleTalk for the moment.

OK, I have found out some more things...
I had been completely confused after looking up the hardware specs about the SE, since I had definitely seen 8 RAM banks, but the SE is supposed only 4... so I took it apart once more, and this time, I had a closer look at the logic board - there's a processor upgrade card installed, and that's where the additional 4 RAMs sit on. It's a Novy systems se pro 2.2 card.
What is confusing, though, is that there are 16MB RAM on the card, but "About this Macintosh" tells me that there are 4MB of total RAM. Huh? I'd expect that it either sees only the one MB on the logic board, or all 17MB, or just the 16MB on the card?
I found the driver software for the processor card, it's called RailGun and consists of 2 extensions and a control panel. The control panel says, there is 1MB RAM on the logic board and 16MB on the card, which is true - but even after installing the driver, the system insists on seeing only 4MB.
I'll post this also in the hardware forum, maybe someone there knows something about this card and how to use it.

Tina

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Answer 10

Jan 14, 2006 5:04 PM in response to Tina Siegenthaler

Tina
Novy Systems must be out of bussiness long before 1996. What I found:
http://www.macdrivermuseum.net/accel.html
Novy Systems
· Railgun 3.5 and 5.42 (617 k)
· Novy Systems drivers for their Mac 512, Plus, and Mac SE 68030/25 accelerator boards.
http://www.garrettc.com
Last has been employed 1993 at Novy systems.Maybe you can ask him for more details

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Answer 11

Jan 14, 2006 5:16 PM in response to AppleIIFreak

Thanks for the links! I already know about the first one, that's where I got the driver. The other one is new to me, I'll check it out.

Tina

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