Level 1

11 points

MLB TV Picture Quality

After yesterday's announcement, I excitedly ordered MLB.TV to watch on my AppleTV 2nd Gen.

Picture quality was a disappointment. Watched 2 spring training games. Detail was very poor, even on a game that was widescreen (presumably HD?). Motion is very stuttery, as if the frame rate is low.

My downstream bandwidth exceeds 17Mbps, and Netflix and Apple rentals work fine.

Anyone else tried it yet?

BTW: MLB.TV says it can be cancelled "at any time", but the fine print says you can only get a refund in the first 5 days!

Posted on Mar 10, 2011 6:30 AM

Top-ranking reply

theroys88

Level 1

0 points

Posted on Apr 2, 2011 7:11 PM

The reason the quality of the picture is not comparable to Sat or cable is that those services stream those games with a bitrate ranges from 16-91mpbs/second. MLBTV maximum bitrate which is stated on their website is 3mpbs/second. With those low bit rates you will see a highly compressed signal. I am having similiar video and audio issue with choppy audio and video. This atop the compression artifacts that jump at you with any fast motion. These streams have 5 to 6 times the compression as a sat or cable HD feed. **** a standard dvd has a bit rate of 6-8mpbs. Have called MLBTV and the level 2 tech agreed and told me that the current bit rates were designed for computer streaming and not large screen HDTV sets. Received a email from MLBTV stating they are currently working on raising bit rates for streaming devices. I would encourage everyone who is not happy with the servicce to call MLBTV and complain about the low bit rates. State my numbers to them. I have called several times and no tech has argued that I was wrong. They all agreed and apologized. I can tell you that the audio and video choppyness that I am experiencing is a MLBTV app PS3 issue. I can stream MLBTV through Playon and the stream is clean. Only 480p and still full of compression artifacts but no audio or video stuttering.

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187 replies

Macaby

Level 3

923 points

Jun 1, 2012 12:58 PM in response to David Aldrich2

While generally I don't have steaming problems on using MLB on my MBA, my IP4 S, my iPad or my ATV2 & 3, I did just take the MLB bandwidth test with a score of 1.3Mbps. I then did a test on speedtest.net where my score was 15Mbps (I've seen it as high as 24Mbps.)

From this one would have to assume that the MLB servers are maxed out, resulting in "throttling" for lack of a better word.

Regardless, I'll probably be back as MLB is NOT a big part of my daily life and I like the price for the few times I use it. Less than half the cost of Extra Innings on DTV. A heavy user would proably be better served with Extra Innings.

Sep 4, 2013 2:06 PM in response to UncleVerbal

Great summary Unc. It is clearly an MLB / Apple issue and frustratingly, neither organisation wants to own the problem, despite it being extremely well documented for many years.

Best solution I have is to access a game from a Mac at mlb.tv, rather than ATV, and push it out to the ATV using AirPlay. Always far better results.

Sep 4, 2013 2:33 PM in response to UncleVerbal

Actually, my post prompted me to do another experiment. I'm on a DSL connection - 6.5 Mbps (yeah, I know, that's what we have to put up with in Australia).

I ran the same game on three different devices at the same time all running from the same internet connection - ATV, iPad and Mac. Quality perfect on the iPad and Mac. Quality attrocious on the ATV. Which suggests either an ATV issue or some sort of incompatibility issue with the feed being pushed out by MLB and how it gets processed by ATV. C'mon guys, this issue has been out there for ages. How about a resolution.

Sep 17, 2013 9:11 PM in response to Atavist

Well I can tell you it's the MLB & Apple TV that doesn't work. Truly horrible in the two seasons I've tried to use it. I can stream via the phone to the Apple TV & it's good. Via the ps3 it's generally HD. I can stream virtually everything off the Apple TV except the baseball via its app. I've tried every combination and it *****. It's not my Internet provider it's the App/Apple TV combo.

Feb 26, 2014 3:52 PM in response to UncleVerbal

Uncle

A very considered response - thanks. Unfortunately, in my case I suspect it's not really relevant, for a couple of reasons:

I live in deepest, darkest Australia where, I suspect, I'm one of not very many people that has an MLB.TV subscription. Peak time in the US is actually early to mid-morning my time, which won't be peak time as far as my ISP is concerned.
I can actually stream the same game on my Mac via Safari and on my Apple TV simultaneously. The Mac quality will be perfect while the Apple TV quality is awful. Hence the workaround for the problem, of pushing the Mac stream to the Apple TV via AirPlay, is an OK workaround, except that it obviously ties up the Mac to allow me to get decent quality on the Apple TV.

All this leads me to believe the problem more than likely sits with Apple, in the way that Apple TV processes the feed. And Apple's motivation to fix it is not strong given it is already getting its revenue stream from MLB, which presumably, is not tied to the number of people who subscribe (or more importantly, elect to unsubscribe) to MLB.TV.

The other option could be that NexDef really does significantly enhance quality and Apple TV needs an equivalent. I suspect this proably isn't the case though.

caa100 Author

Level 1

11 points

Mar 31, 2011 12:56 PM in response to caa100

Just ran up to watch a few minutes of the Yankees on the AppleTV.

Picture quality is better now that the season has started. Much sharper, better detail. Especially for relatively stationary images.

However, you can still see serious compression artifacts during motion(like camera swings or players swinging/running).

This is to be expected, since MLB says they limit the bitrate to 3000kbps.

I can live with the compression artifacts, esp. since the alternative (MLB Extra Innings on Cable) is mostly Standard Def.

However, sorry to say that fast motion also exhibits a visible jitter - that is to say motion is not smooth. This is very clear to me. I asked my son to look at it, he thought it was fine until I pointed it out.

So: probably OK if you are not a videophile. If, on the other hand, you have an account on the AVSForums, then you probably will not like it.

BrianNW

Level 1

36 points

Apr 1, 2011 4:30 PM in response to frank grimes jr

I'm seeing the same problems on my new ATV -- especially the picture starting and stopping, and the pixelation. I have a Roku player connected to the same TV -- both the ATV and Roku are connected via ethernet. MLB.TV looks greats on the Roku. Terrible on the ATV. Leads me think it's the ATV that's the problem (or how MLB.TV communicated with the ATV).

caa100 Author

Level 1

11 points

Apr 2, 2011 4:56 AM in response to PaulLu

PaulLu wrote:
While everything you say is true - and something I've witnessed myself on my Mac - it doesn't account for the video feed stopping/hanging when using an AppleTV hooked up to a TV. The quality of the feed is actually pretty good (eventually, once they lock in on the proper bitrate, which I'm assuming they do on the fly), but then the feed just...locks. Happens within 30s, and repeats about that often as well.

I started this thread to discuss the Picture Quality *when it is working*. Starting/stopping is another story.

If/when you get your AppleTV working with MLB.TV, you will discover that the PQ is poor.

The primary reason for this, I think, is that MLB's maximum bitrate is 3000kbps, as they state on their forums. In fact, if you go to the MLB forums, you will find PQ complaints from PS3 owners, Roku owners, and people who hook up their PC's to the TV.

If MLB is going to sell this to people using media streamers, they need to stop thinking of it as a PC service and step up to a higher quality feed.

caa100 Author

Level 1

11 points

Apr 2, 2011 5:03 AM in response to caa100

MLB seems to have poor infrastructure.

When I test my bandwidth on Speedtest.net, I average between 16 and 20Mbps.

When I use the MLB bandwidth test, I get around 6404kpbs. That's 1/3 or less of my actual bandwidth, but still more than enough for their stated 3000kbps minimum.

MLB Bandwidth test: http://mlb.mlb.com/tools/bandwidthdetect/index.html
Speedtest.net: http://www.speedtest.net

Just for grins, I tried Speedtest selecting a server clear on the other side of the country, and I still get 14Mbps.

MLB: you are selling a product that costs as much as a 1-year Netflix streaming solution. Quality should be the same.

Macaby

Level 3

923 points

Apr 2, 2011 9:38 AM in response to caa100

No, mlb on either a computer or through ATV is NOT going to result in the same picture quality as Extra Innings as delivered via Directv. I have both (my mlb.com subscription and the annual free tryout of Extra Innings from my Directv). Since the mlb is half the price of Extra Innings, I'm willing to take less picture quality with mlb.com.

I think it's absurd to think anyone will get true HD piped down the 'net in real time. I haven't tried it yet, but I plan to hook up my MBP to my Samsung via the HDMI output of my MBP to see if the video is any better with that method verses my ATV2. Even if it is however, the convenience of using my ATV2 verses dragging my MBP to my big screen, and "cabling" it up would make me go the ATV2 route most of the time.

My biggest gripe of mlb is the blackout rule for my local team. After watching them for over 15 years, I'm just tired of the same "homer" announcers and would prefer to watch the opponents TV feed every day of the week. IF I could use mlb just for this fact, I would be a very happy camper.

caa100 Author

Level 1

11 points

Apr 2, 2011 1:34 PM in response to fatcat585

The simple fact of the matter is that 3000 kbps is not sufficient to maintain full HD resolution at a reasonable frame rate when there is fast motion.

Some people may not notice it, but others will see a reduction in resolution, image blur, and strobing.

Now that MLB is marketing their services on media streaming devices, they need to stop thinking about it as a PC/web service. The standard of quality is different. An MLB TV subscription costs more than a year of the Netflix streaming package. It is reasonable to expect comparable image quality, and despite their excuses it is also technically possible.

Additionally, they need to re-examine their content delivery network. There is clearly an issue when people with 20 mbps downstream bandwidth score 4500kbps when testing against MLB servers.

Atavist

Level 1

5 points

Apr 2, 2011 4:49 PM in response to baseballcrazy1

baseballcrazy1 wrote:
...should I try and exchange my AppleTV at the apple store?...I doubt it's a faulty unit cause Netflix streams HD movies with NO GLITCHES every..

I exchanged mine, and it was only marginally better (after also increasing my speed to 30MBps, for streaming to a 23" HDTV) - still pixalating but a bit less (usually on when camera angles changed to follow outfield play or run a replay), and there is still regular, intermittent freezing (the original unit froze "permanently" requiring return to menu) Meanwhile, Netflix is excellent.

I'm going to retain my MLB.TV subscription for my MB and iMAc, which are practically flawless; moreover the multi-screen and other premium feature are available on on computers (but not Apple TV). Whether I keep the Apple TV depends upon Apple barking at MLB and MLB fixing the problem.

This afternoon, I was at the Apple store today on another and my "Genius" (ignorant of the MLB.TV problem), he said that these fora are monitored and the matter should receive attention and be fixed. When I shopped the Apple TV - no one at the Apple Store knew that MLB.TV was available, and after and when I returned they were still ignorant of the fact that there was a software update with MLB.TV.

There are many miffed who purchased MLB.TV and Apple TV for the opening of the season, who are sorely disappointed and feel "cheated" (consumer fraud class action to follow if not fixed - PDQ. Also, many who are not buying Apple TV are learning of this problem online and from friends. Conclusion, MLB is damaging Apples brand, which is actionable. "Hey, Apple wake-up and bark - there's a wolf - indeed a monopolist - gnawing on your brand and eating at your profits."

Message was edited by: Atavist

Macaby

Level 3

923 points

Apr 2, 2011 4:42 PM in response to caa100

First, I would like to state again that MLB on ATV2 works for me. For someone to say that it's UNWATCHABLE is way over the top. That said...

Earlier today I ported a game from my MBP to my Samsung through the HDMI interface and while it's hard to say without seeing side-by-side video, I think the picture might have been a bit better than ATV2.

Next, since I have access to DirecTV Extra Innings in their free preview mode, I compared a live game from DTV to a game playing on my MBP and while DTV was a clear winner, the video on my MBP was very good.

Finally, I compared my MBP video to my ATV2 video and the first thing I noticed was that the video on ATV2 was about 30 seconds behind the MBP video. Comparing the MBP above to DTV, the MBP video was only about 2 seconds behind.

Since the MBP video came down the same line as the ATV2, somewhere in the system the video from the ATV2 is getting a serious drag on it. Apple server? ATV2 buffer? Perhaps this accounts for some of the de-pixilation that occurs.

Apr 4, 2011 7:00 PM in response to Macaby

Tried it when I got home this evening, the Twinkies-Yanks game was unwatchable with the same issues I was having a few days ago. Choppy video, stopping every 30 seconds, staying on the commercial break screen even when the game was back on, etc. I flipped it over to the Cardinals game and it was HD-quality without even a whimper. Not sure what that means, but it sure seems like the heavier demand games give me more trouble....hopefully they increase their bandwidth.

And just to clarify my setup, I have a brand new DOCSiS 3.0 compatible cable modem and a 802.11N router. Getting 10mpbs+ consistently from speedtest, it's pretty clear to me it's not a bandwidth issue on my end (especially since I can watch two different streams on my iPhone and my Macbook Pro with better results than just one on my ATV2).

Thanks again for your responses.

Apr 9, 2011 9:52 AM in response to Macaby

i have yet been able to stream a game with my ATV2 over my home WiFi network (which connects to the internet via cable modem) with a picture quality that approaches anything even approximating SD, let alone HD.

i repeat: NOT. ONE. SINGLE. WATCHABLE. GAME.

i can however watch games fine at a quality comparable to what would be obtained through the "Extra Innings" package with cable TV on both a MacBook Pro via ethernet and a MacBook Air via WiFi so you do the math as to what/where the issue is...

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MLB TV Picture Quality