Screen Mirroring with HDMI Question

well how do u get ipad 2 to display on screen

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In the meantime... can you please let me have your tv details. make and model, and a serial number if possible. Thanks and best wishes we find a solution for your problem. Ct

Theanorak wrote:

Evidently I signed up for email alerts on this thread, and the ipad3 launch has brought the same problem. Which is disappointing.

To reiterate: the problem is *not* pillarboxing (black bars left and right) of 4:3 content on a 16:9 screen. That's the desired outcome.

The problem is that, for the iPad 2 at least (don't have an iPad3) the image is both pillarboxed AND letterboxed. The iPad is adding black borders to the output display, then scaling to the output resolution. Underscanning (and overscanning) aren't relevant in this case, as there's no reason for the iPad to do either when sending a specific signal (either 720p or 1080p) over a digital link.

If there's a hardware limitation preventing the video mirror output being properly proportionally scaled to fit the screen (as full screen apps do successfully) then it wouldn't be too hard to say so. If it's not a hardware issue but a deliberate decision (perhaps to accommodate CRT-based HDTVs with HDMI inputs, if such things exist), then it might be nice to give us the option of turning it off.

I would say it can't be a hardware limitation because some apps do use full-1080p output. To me it seems like a carryover from analog/component signal, where the actual iPad screen is mirrored to an undersized image (back when you needed to be "TV SAFE" with your television output.

Quite frustrating, honestly! Seems like a NO BRAINER that Apple would ouput it's 4:3 aspect ratio in an HDMI 1080p feed at a standard 1440x1080, with the other 480 pixels (ie. 1920x1080) simply 240 pixels of black on each side.

Coppertiger... why would they not do this? I don't understand the reasoning?

Str8Chutr wrote:

Mark6275 wrote:

It's unfortunate that the iPad doesn't fit your tv screen exactly pixel too pixel. As I look at my iPad I can see the iPad is not a true 16 x 9 panel like my TV. When thats the case "rescaling" is going to be necessary to eliminate black borders.

You seem to be happy with rescaling video sources like Netflix but object to "zooming" your Tv picture.

Hi Mark, thanks for the reply!

Unfortunately, I don't think you're understanding the issue. I'm not expecting anything near a pixel to pixel match. I understand the iPad is not a 16x9 panel, and therefore would expect some black bars on horizontal to fill the space. But the current rescaled image through the AV Digital Adapter (and HDMI cable) is not being processed to fill even the vertical dimension (hence black bars on all 4 sides).

I'm NOT happy with Netflix.. or slideshow, or many other apps. They do NOT fill the screen horizontally or vertically. All the apps that are simply "mirrored" seem to suffer from the same 4 black bar problem. (see attached photo)

However, I do not think this is an issue with the hardware setup because there are other apps on my iPad 3 which use the exact same cables and to the same TV - and scale properly. For example, the built-in "VIDEOS" app (which doesn't mirror, but sends a signal through the adapter) scales a 16:9 video properly to fill the entire screen... and the same app scales a 4:3 video to at least fill the vertical space (and naturally black bars appear on the sides).

Does that makes sense? It seems it's a problem with the way the "mirror" video output is setup on the iPad 3.

I have seen videos where people have captured the output of the iPad 2 over HDMI and it's properly scaling to fit the HDTV. I can only guess the new resolution on the iPad 3 has changed the output algorithms. I've also seen a number of other posts detailing this same issue with the iPad 3, and so far has not been answered with anything other than "user error".

If there is something I'm not doing right, I'll be happy to post the fix.

Thanks for the response, I do appreciate it.

For what it's worth, neither my original iPad nor my iPod Touch support mirroring and I do not see this issue at all. I had originally used the Digital A/V Adapter and now I use Apple TV with Airplay as an "electronic cable."

It may not be the fault of the ipad. Lets get the tv info first and take it from there. Anyone following this thread remember the early limitations on the hdmi inputs on devices such as the nintendo wii and old cube. There is a way round the input issue just as there was with them. Patience please.

Thanks for writing Coppertiger.

Why would we need to worry about the TV. Some apps output a full 1080p resolution just fine on the current setup. Therefore the cables, the iPad, the TV all work together. It's just a difference in the signal between the what is sent out in MIRROR mode vs. an app dedicating output to external screen (like the VIDEOS app, or even YouTube)

Simple experiment for you. Your PC screen has a native resolution. Go into available video adapter output resoltion and pick one that is greater than your native res, IE if its 1440x900 find one thats say 1920x1280. Hit apply then post back what you see. Alot of TV sets can handle the differences automatically, then there are those that cannot. A little bit of fine tuning is all thats required. Underscan is one way, providing you keep the aspect ratio locked, or use zoom, again with the aspect ratio locked. But there are a couple of other ways round it too. But I need your TV info first just to check something. Many HD tv's have different modes and sometimes dependent on the mode in use options elsewhere are unavailable. Tv info please, then we can see what the problems really are.

1080/3*4

1080/9*16

The Apps that do the real thing process the signal from inout to output. The TV recognises the input and outputs accordingly. The ipad mirrors a 3/4 resolution scale direct which the translator on the tv cannot accurately represent to the full screen. Its not the pad, its not the apps. All modern TV receivers have a range of available scaling modes dependent on the input, some are better than others. The pad we know about, the Apps we know about, We know nothing about the TV in question. Dependent on the logic software of the receiver it will handle the signal against pre-programmed criteria set within the decoder logic. The logic will be such that it can accomodate a wide variety of input signal modes accross various standards set by the film and tv boards throughout the world.

I had exactly the same problem with a 52 inch Samsung Plasma series 5 and a nintendo. Two HDMI inputs, one displayed correctly the other did not. Documentation pointed me to the second, plus I had to change the display mode to make the 4:3 aspect ratio input fit the screen vertically. In normal mode and a video input on cHDMI input one (true HD input) there was no problem. But I had to switch modes when using my cube on input 2 to make the additional settings available in the Menu. Thankfully when it was all set up I just hit save and the memory on the TV did the rest every time I connected after that. If his tv is set up to expect a HD input and also set to full widescreen output the picture will be barred top and bottom. If my HD receiver is anything to go by, I also know that if I select full hD output, widescreen, my tv clips the picture edges left and right because it cannot handle the modern cinematography of widescreen - the letterbox effect - without the letterbox. Its a compromise sometimes.

Coppertiger wrote:

Simple experiment for you. Your PC screen has a native resolution. Go into available video adapter output resoltion and pick one that is greater than your native res, IE if its 1440x900 find one thats say 1920x1280. Hit apply then post back what you see. Alot of TV sets can handle the differences automatically, then there are those that cannot. A little bit of fine tuning is all thats required. Underscan is one way, providing you keep the aspect ratio locked, or use zoom, again with the aspect ratio locked. But there are a couple of other ways round it too. But I need your TV info first just to check something. Many HD tv's have different modes and sometimes dependent on the mode in use options elsewhere are unavailable. Tv info please, then we can see what the problems really are.

I have two displays I've tried the iPad 3 on with same results.

#1: LG IPS226V-PN black

#2: Vizio V037L

My LG is native at 1920x1080.. and my adapter goes no higher. So I set it lower... 1440x900. Whatdya know - automatically adjusts the image to fit edge-to-edge.

I don't think what I'm looking at is a need for "fine tuning". For one... if I was to adjust horz or vetical zoom or position... then when the iPad switched to an app that supported full 16:9 1080p - now I'd have to adjust the TV back to original settings.

Maybe you can try this:

1. Hook up your iPad with the AV Digital Adapter to an HDMI cable

2. View the MIRROR display on your HDTV. See if it fills the screen to top & bottom

3. Now try YouTube or Videos and see if the video output fills the entire screen with a 16:9 video.

What IS the actual resolution being put out by the iPad in MIRROR? That might help solve the issue more than giving you the details of my TV's? Just troubleshooting here.

Coppertiger wrote:

1080/3*4

1080/9*16

The pad we know about, the Apps we know about, We know nothing about the TV in question.

I had exactly the same problem with a 52 inch Samsung Plasma series 5 and a nintendo. Two HDMI inputs, one displayed correctly the other did not. Documentation pointed me to the second, plus I had to change the display mode to make the 4:3 aspect ratio input fit the screen vertically. In normal mode and a video input on cHDMI input one (true HD input) there was no problem. But I had to switch modes when using my cube on input 2 to make the additional settings available in the Menu. Thankfully when it was all set up I just hit save and the memory on the TV did the rest every time I connected after that. If his tv is set up to expect a HD input and also set to full widescreen output the picture will be barred top and bottom. If my HD receiver is anything to go by, I also know that if I select full hD output, widescreen, my tv clips the picture edges left and right because it cannot handle the modern cinematography of widescreen - the letterbox effect - without the letterbox. Its a compromise sometimes.

Oh my word! Seriously? You are just babbling nonsense... Comparing an iPad with a "nintendo" (do you mean Gamecube? Which OUTPUT are you talking about... composite, component, S-video??)

The Gamecube doesn't even have an HDMI output. I'm getting frustrated here because you keep wondering around instead of looking at the actual issue here.

We are not talking about simple adjustments on the TV to stretch the signal a little to the edges. We're not talking about choosing 4:3 mode or saving the settings once adjusted. And for goodness sake, this has nothing to do with letterboxing an image with movie ratios like 1.85:1 or 2,35:1, etc.

Coppertiger wrote:

1080/3*4

1080/9*16

The Apps that do the real thing process the signal from inout to output. The TV recognises the input and outputs accordingly. The ipad mirrors a 3/4 resolution scale direct which the translator on the tv cannot accurately represent to the full screen.

Meant to point this out....
You're saying the mirror is sending out some signal which the TV cannot properly adjust for. If so, then it must not be a standard 1080p HDMI signal (since my TV handles those fine).

Can you PLEASE tell me what the native resolution of the iPad 3 output is? I thought apple said it was a 1080p signal... (1920x1080)?

Sorry about the Nintendo reference - getting confused in my old age - my wife says it was our son's xbox360 we had to fiddle to set up and inputted the ninnie on vga, my mistake ,, do apologise,, humble pie eaten.

1920-1080 out on Apps that support. Mirrored at 4:3

LG model you have is not autosensing.

Select Mode with smart+ and set to Movie. Adjust for Original input or Wide on connection.

Ensure the overscan function is Always On when connecting by HDMI

Ps. there is an interesting article here which makes things a little clearer.

http://moviemavericks.com/2012/03/what-the-new-ipad-3-and-apple-tv-means-for-fil m-lovers/

basically be aware of your tv's abilities or limitations and adjust accordingly. As many have noted in other discussions, the emphasis seems to be that if you splash out for the complete apple set up, Mac, Airplay, +device you get the best of everything. For anything non-apple, a bi of research is going to be required.

The latest Apple TV (3rd gen) supports mirroring at the full 1080HD, 2nd gen at 720p

Caveat emptor, as the romans might have said.

For the techies

http://support.apple.com/kb/SP622

http://support.apple.com/kb/SP647

Coppertiger wrote:

1920-1080 out on Apps that support. Mirrored at 4:3

LG model you have is not autosensing.

Select Mode with smart+ and set to Movie. Adjust for Original input or Wide on connection.

Ensure the overscan function is Always On when connecting by HDMI

Thanks for the reply Coppertiger.

Sorry... the HDMI input does not let you adjust for original or wide. It IS autosensing the feed as a 1080p signal. If you turn on "Always On" for overscan, then you are just "zooming in"... and:

1. Even with overscan on, the mirror display does not meet the top & bottom edges.

2. With overscan on, videos & apps using 1080p output are not scaled properly but are zoomed in as well.

Don't worry... don't need to answer. Will respond to your other post and consolidate my thoughts there.