Screen Mirroring with HDMI Question

Coppertiger wrote:

Ps. there is an interesting article here which makes things a little clearer.

http://moviemavericks.com/2012/03/what-the-new-ipad-3-and-apple-tv-means-for-fil m-lovers/

basically be aware of your tv's abilities or limitations and adjust accordingly. As many have noted in other discussions, the emphasis seems to be that if you splash out for the complete apple set up, Mac, Airplay, +device you get the best of everything. For anything non-apple, a bi of research is going to be required.

The latest Apple TV (3rd gen) supports mirroring at the full 1080HD, 2nd gen at 720p

Caveat emptor, as the romans might have said.

Hi Coppertiger,

No... that article doesn't clarify anything, as it is only talking about scaling movies UP to fit on the actual iPad screen itself. It isn't talking about HDMI output at all.

And yes... the emphasis is of course on buying Apple TV because then they can make even more money. A simple HDMI port on the iPad would've worked too... but that wouldn't allow them to sell an adapter for $39. It's very frustrating sometimes! The reason I didn't want Apple TV is that you're using wireless bandwidth, and the quality could suffer with signal strength. Wired (ie. HDMI) should give you a more stable signal - and at a full 1080p resolution... at least that was the hope. Here is what I'm seeing:

MY CONCLUSION:

Nobody has stated this anywhere, and you didn't understand what I'm talking about... but from everything I can deduce, this is what's really happening:

• Apple's iPad resolution is downscaled 1280x960 within the HDMI signal.
  (WHY they didn't just go 1440x1080 is THE ISSUE!!)
• That leaves 180 pixels of vertical black... 90 on top, 90 on bottom. (Might not seem like a huge loss, but it is noticeable... you'll have to crop and/or zoom if you're editing in 1080p for example)
• We have 640 pixels of horizontal black (instead of just 480)
• Applications that take advantage of video output (instead of mirror) can produce a proper 16:9 resolution of 1920x1080.
• SO, it's NOT YOUR TV if you can get a full screen, edge-to-edge display in one of these 16:9 output apps.
• I notice the input signal doesn't change at all between mirror & app outputs.. which means the 1080p signal remains steady from the iPad... which means
• APPLE could have done better! That's all I'm saying. Feel a little cheated...

Caveat Emptor? YES...
Remember that in 4:3 mirror you're only getting about 1280x960 actual resolution over the 1080p signal... it will not fill the 1080p signal. Now you know... (unless otherwise proven wrong)

Point taken - on the clarity of what is intended. Apple, as can be seen from the Pad3 technical spec are a little grey about this, see >>> <<<

AirPlay Mirroring to Apple TV (2nd and 3rd generation) at 720p

AirPlay video streaming to Apple TV (3rd generation) at up to 1080p and Apple TV (2nd generation) at up to 720p

>>>Video mirroring and video out support: Up to 1080p <<<< with Apple Digital AV Adapter or Apple VGA Adapter (adapters sold separately)

Video out support at 576i and 480i with Apple Composite AV Cable (cable sold separately)

Video formats supported: H.264 video up to 1080p, 30 frames per second, High Profile level 4.1 with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps, 48kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats; MPEG-4 video up to 2.5 Mbps, 640 by 480 pixels, 30 frames per second, Simple Profile with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps per channel, 48kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats; Motion JPEG (M-JPEG) up to 35 Mbps, 1280 by 720 pixels, 30 frames per second, audio in ulaw, PCM stereo audio in .avi file format

This implies that (in my mind at least) that given a TV's input decoder handling routine, it is seeing the 1080 signal independent of the handling specification of the TV itself.

I think you noted in an earlier post that some apps you used give the full output. The only other suggestion I can make, is to inquire whether you have Closed Captioning off or on under Settings\Video. Closed captioning reserves (directs) the receiver to make allowance for closed captioning when present.

II am not authorative on Closed Captioning, but if it was being braodcast to the receiver, it may reserve the picture area regardless of the Closed captioning being broadcast in actuality.

The underscan function on your LG should allow you to adjust the mirrored output to fill the screen top to bottom.

There are, As i understand from an article I read, two methods of handling underscan where it has been set fro a particular signal.

1) You need to adjust for each signal type (tiresome)

2) You adjust for the smaller, and it automatically underscans signals that would otherwise overfill the vertical.

The effect of this can be, due to compression algoriths in the decoder logic, to soften the picture, requiring it to be sharpened or refocused in worse cases.

For the record, I do agree with you about the literature and implication on the end user's perception that Apple is touting. For a company of their size they should make things a lot clearer.

But if the fact that, as recently reported, they are making 5.91 million dollars a day, and have an effective customer satisfaction rating of about 83% which they seem happy with - then just maybe, clarity of purpose for the end user's overall enjoyment is a trade off they seem happy to make against their bottom line margin.

If it was my company, I would not be a happy bunny, just having one dissatisified customer (these things have a tendency to escalate over a period of time).would tell me the company is not focused enough where it matters most - people like you, and me.

I'm just sorry that on expressing your frustration no easy answer has been forthcoming. I am told that this site is not mentored or affiliated directly with Apple, but perhaps it ought to be. After all, Apple's products only took off in a big way when millions of people had expressed a general disatisfaction with the window platform as an end user experience, and the general lack of mobility in their product range.

Hopefully the next big thing in the market will be backed by a company that regards the end consumer as the BIG thing that matters most.

We can only live in hope. Best wishes. Ct

Coppertiger wrote:

Point taken - on the clarity of what is intended. Apple, as can be seen from the Pad3 technical spec are a little grey about this...

.......

For the record, I do agree with you about the literature and implication on the end user's perception that Apple is touting. For a company of their size they should make things a lot clearer.

But if the fact that, as recently reported, they are making 5.91 million dollars a day, and have an effective customer satisfaction rating of about 83% which they seem happy with - then just maybe, clarity of purpose for the end user's overall enjoyment is a trade off they seem happy to make against their bottom line margin.

If it was my company, I would not be a happy bunny, just having one dissatisified customer (these things have a tendency to escalate over a period of time).would tell me the company is not focused enough where it matters most - people like you, and me.

I'm just sorry that on expressing your frustration no easy answer has been forthcoming. I am told that this site is not mentored or affiliated directly with Apple, but perhaps it ought to be.

...

We can only live in hope. Best wishes. Ct

For the record, I appreciate your feedback and your willingness to attempt fixing the problem... it's no easy task to do troubleshooting via text-only messages.

Also for the record, overall I'm genuinely thrilled to have the iPad 3 and it functions beautifully. As a video editing professional, I had just hoped to have as much resolution as possible when capturing videos off the iPad's HDMI feed.

Let this thread stand as information for those seeing the same things I've seen... and also perhaps someday there will be a software update that addresses this issue and perhaps improves the mirror resolution over HDMI.

Thanks again Ct.

Hi Str8Chutr,

Have you managed to resolve this problem? I am using iPad2 (5.1) and after updating from IOS 4 to 5 I started getting this problem. It is very strange that some programs work correctly and some don't. For example native apps, like YouTube, never have the problem, they always fill the 1920x1280 correctly. Also Air Video app seems to work all the time. But some apps dont, for exampe Buzz player does not manage to fill the whole resolution 1920x1280, it leaves empty space on all 4 sides.

I am using video projector and find this very frustrating.

Timpax wrote:

Have you managed to resolve this problem? ... For example native apps, like YouTube, never have the problem, they always fill the 1920x1280 correctly. But some apps dont, for exampe Buzz player does not manage to fill the whole resolution 1920x1280, it leaves empty space on all 4 sides.

I am using video projector and find this very frustrating.

Hey Timpax,

I feel for you. No, there is nothing we can do to fix this. Apple will have to provide some kind of OS update if they are going to change this up. You are exactly right... that apps which do video-output will fill a 1920x1080p connection, but anything that is mirrored on the iPad has empty space on all 4 sides.

I've actually just purchased the older VGA output cable... will report once I get it and can test it out. From what I understand, it does a perfect 1/2 resolution mirror at 1024x768 (instead of 2048x1536). This might be your ideal solution -- especially for something like a projector or computer screen. At least you'd fill a 4:3 projector feed at 1024x768 resolution. If you're close to an Apple store, I'd recommend stopping by and physically hooking it all up before you have to buy it.

Hope that helps.

Hi guys. This has disappointed me too. To say I had bought the iPad to allow the family to watch movies from the Store and find that they do not fill the TV screen is unacceptable. YouTube is ok and a couple of movies I had in H264 format are also ok. However the whole experience of the iPad has been tarnished for me because of this. I really can't afford to be throwing any more money at this either - the HDMI connector being expensive enough.

If anyone does find a workaround for this please be so kind as to post it. I and I am sure a number of others would be most grateful.

bozzd wrote:

Hi guys. This has disappointed me too. To say I had bought the iPad to allow the family to watch movies from the Store and find that they do not fill the TV screen is unacceptable. YouTube is ok and a couple of movies I had in H264 format are also ok. However the whole experience of the iPad has been tarnished for me because of this. I really can't afford to be throwing any more money at this either - the HDMI connector being expensive enough.

If anyone does find a workaround for this please be so kind as to post it. I and I am sure a number of others would be most grateful.

WORKAROUND FOUND!!! (but only if you have a VGA input on your HDTV)

I just hooked up the "old" Apple VGA cable for iPads. I couldn't really get any definitive information on if it worked on the iPad3, but TO MY JOYFUL Surprise -- it worked even better than expected!

Not only are all apps displayed edge-to-edge in mirrored mode, but the video-output apps are also scaled edge-to-edge when playing back. It gets better... apparently Apple did this cable the right way because it auto-senses the VGA connection on the other side and sends a signal accordingly.

IE. on an older monitor or display, the iPad 3 did an output of 1024x768.
But I hooked the VGA up to my HDTV (Vizio - takes a VGA input) and it went full 1080p - YUP, 1920x1080 @ 60 hertz. Looked incredible.

The only drawback to all this is you need a monitor/tv that supports VGA instead of HDMI. I guess the other frustrating thing is that if Apple had already programmed the VGA cable to work this well, then they obviously need to FIX the HDMI issue!

So there's your workaround... hope that helps.

@Str8Chutr

When the apps appear fullscreen, are the applications stretched and distorted?

RoundedDev wrote:

@Str8Chutr

When the apps appear fullscreen, are the applications stretched and distorted?

It's all done in proper aspect ratio. First, the iPad screen is mirrored in a 4:3 window centered on the 16:9 display. So apps that are mirrored remain in the 4:3 display. However, apps that are programmed to take advantage of the video-out feature can use the full 16:9 ratio (ie. YouTube, Videos, etc.)

The base resolution from the iPad3 is 1920x1080p. However, it also senses the monitor on the other end, and can dial down to 1/4 resolution (1024x768) automatically. If your HDTV or monitor has a VGA input, though, you will likely get a full 1920x1080p output and then the mirror will display within the middle of that resolution (ie. about 1440x1080)

Hope that helps.

I've just got the Digital AV cable today. When I first used on my 5 year old Samsung HDTV (bedroom TV) it worked perfectly and the mirrored picture from my iPad 3 was displayed in full 4:3 aspect ratio with no borders at the top and bottom. However, later on, I tried the 'Asphalt 7' game which supports full widescreen and this was displayed with borders on all four sides. Then when I closed the app, the home screen was displayed with borders at top and bottom too along with every other app. I've rebooted my iPad, unplugged my TV and reconnected the cables as well as trying different settings on the TV itself without success.

Our more modern Samsung TV in the living room displays everything perfectly, both standard 4:3 apps and 16:9 apps like Asphalt 7.

Any advice?

Having the exact issue Str8Chutr shows in his image.

Tried 2 TVs and multiple resolutions (ipad3, ATV3). Probably gonna take this back and get a Roku instead. Airplay mirroring was the main reason to get Apple TV for me, and it does not work as advertised.

Will email Apple tech support and see if they respond, but not holding my breath.

Luke

wow, looks like I"m not alone on this one, very frustrated indeed.

as others pointed out, I'm also getting the same black borders on 4 sides issue on my new ipad and my newly purchased LG 47" 1080P HDTV, when mirroring the image from ipad to TV, a few ipad programs would show in full screen on the TV such as videos, photos etc, but most of the apps, games, emails, and home screen all show black bars on top/bottom/sides of the TV. Yes I could change the aspect ratio on my HDTV by zooming, and it will make look full screen for those apps on the TV, but doing so will mess up the videos/photos display (overscan) which were displayed properly before.

seems to me it's a software issue with ipad (both 2nd Gen and the new iPad). I'm disappointed there is no fix yet, hopefully the next iOS update will resolve it.

The Airplay MIRRORING is very frustrating. OSX Mounatin Lion has no problem, thankfully. Unfortunately Apple engineers believe overscan is necessary for ios devices, which makes no sense. How many users out there have their AppleTVs connected via HDMI to an old CRT SDTV that uses overscan??? HDTVs are basically the same as computer monitors... A 1080p signal can match pixel per pixel. What old SD CRT monitors are Apple QA folks testing this stuff on? Do we need to send them a cheap 1080p TV so they can see that overscan is not needed? I just dont get why they do it this way.

I want to add that this has also been happening to me, and this thread has given me the most infomation on what's going on. There really isn't much on the web about this.

My set up:

TV: Vizio 32 inch 1080p Model Number: VOJ320F1A

Apple TV 2nd Generation

iPad 2 Wi-Fi running iOS 5.1.1

Only difference for what I am doing is that I am utlizing AirPlay Mirroring, and the above posts are using Direct HDMI connection by using the Digital AV Apple Adaptor

Like previous screenshots have shown in this thread, I have had "black bars" surronding the video when viewing anything using AirPlay Mirroring. I have gone into the settings of my TV, and I can adjust overscan, underscan, but when I stop AirPlay Mirroring, the Apple TV menu and the AirPlay Video are not correct.

I also understand there will be black bars to the left and the right of the video when using AirPlay Mirror. HOWEVER, certain apps allow for dual screen, like Hulu Plus, Crackle, iPhoto, MetalShaft. In these apps, while in AirPlay Mirror mode, there are black bars all the way around also. I can try to correct like I said in the previous paragraph, but the other views (like Apple TV menu) are then messed up.

As previous posters have said, there is no fix (unless you plug-in directly using a VGA port via Apple VGA cable).

I believe there needs to be a setting in the new iOS 6 that adjusts overscan/underscan.

Apple has already done this with the new OSX Mountain Lion. If you enable AirPlay Mirror using Mountain Lion, there is a box you can check/uncheck to ulitize overscan. For my set up, unchecking the box enables the screen to be "fullscreen" with NO black bars around. That means overscanning is turned off. No such function exisits within iOS 5. I am unaware of such feature for iOS 6

Apple, please allow for such feature in future releases of iOS 6.

Dear guys,

same issue here with my iPad 3 with Apple TV connected to a Panasonic Full HD 1920x1080p TV.

" Apple, please allow for such feature in future releases of iOS 6! " 😝