I'd like to alter my Airport Extreme/Airport Express wireless network so that the 3 Expresses connect to the Extreme via Ethernet. I've been told this will create a more stable wifi signal. How do I configure this using Airport Utility? Thanks.

Fortunately, we wired our home for Ethernet long ago, before we converted to wireless, so everything is basically ready. We just have to have someone go under the house and pull a couple of the wires to different spots in the rooms. It should be pretty straightforward (we know how that goes, though, right?), but I plan to ask the tech to assess the situation before going forward. Your detail and expertise have convinced me it's worth it to convert to the Ethernet connections. If it truly will be a fairly simple task to reinstate our Ethernet, it shouldn't be too expensive, just a bit of a headache for the tech-- there are so many wires and cables under our house, it's not to be believed! If it doesn't accomplish what we're hoping for, given everything you've said, I still think it will be a positive move.

I came so close to "getting there" by adding one more Express: whereas I used to have 2 rooms sever connection to the Extreme every time I ran the microwave, with the added Express, 1 room stays stable now and the 2nd room only severs connection some of the time. I'd been toying with the idea of trying to solve the problem by adding yet one more Express; but after all your suggestions, and the fact that some of the guys at the Apple Store had also recommended Ethernet, I feel that Ethernet has the best chance of solving our problem. Worst case, I'll have to continue to reset after interference, which I'm doing now, anyway, but I think that will be a lot less likely with the Ethernet connection. I'm pretty sure our connection is breaking between the Extreme and the Express, not between the device and the Express. I had a tough time even installing the Expresses in their current locations, because the signal to the Extreme was so weak. I maximized the signal through a lot of tweaking Channels, locations, etc.; but the fact that it gets severed, shows it clearly isn't strong enough to withstand the microwave interference.

I can't thank you enough for all your support and interest. I have always found the variety of network configurations, as explained by Apple documents, to be somewhat confusing and have had to muddle along on my own to find what would work best in my home. Your explanations have given me a much better understanding of the various network options and have really helped me determine how to proceed. I will let you know the upshot of all this, hopefully within the next couple of days. I hope I haven't taken up too much of your time with all my questions and really appreciate the thoroughness with which you answered each and every one of them!

Hi Bob,

Well, I'm all set up with my old Ethernet connections connecting my AEBS to my 3 Airport Expresses. I've run my microwave and so far, so good; however, since I'd added the extra Express last week, the microwave situation had been a little more stable. There have been times when my Expresses and Extreme have been holding the connection, so I really need to see how everything behaves over the course of a few days, to be absolutely sure the problem's been corrected. I'm pretty sure the connections will be stable, though, as I'm positive that the connection that was being broken was the one between the Extreme and the Express. Now that they're hardwired, those connections should hold steady.

The one thing I have not yet done is power everything down and start things up one at a time. Without yet having done that, everything is still working seamlessly. Currently, my Internet speeds are as good or better as they've ever been and I have strong wi-fi everywhere. Do you still think I should go through the efforts of powering everything down and re-booting each, one at a time? If everything's working so well now, what would I accomplish by going through the power-down ritual?

Assuming all works well over the weekend, I will post an update at the beginning of next week to let you know how things are going. I can't thank you enough for all the help and explicit instructions you provided. If you get a chance, I'd love to know what you think about the powering down issue. Meanwhile, have a great weekend.

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

Phyllis

Well, not to your surprise, I'm sure, things have worked out fantastically well with our new roaming network! My microwave doesn't even interfere with the network when the micro is running, let alone after it's stopped! I've never seen the performance I'm now getting on my iPad and iPhone, the Internet speeds on my MacBook Pro are the best they've ever been, my husband's web pages are loading much faster than ever and, of course, our home network is now much stronger and more stable! I haven't powered down and recycled everything yet, either. I figure I can do that anytime and might as well wait until there's a more specific reason for doing so. I realize things might possibly improve slightly more once this is done. My AT&T DSL modem can be a little finicky in connecting to the network after a power recycle, however, and I'm just too pleased with everything right now to have to start troubleshooting again.

I truly can't thank you enough for your thorough and detailed explanations of both the how's and why's of setting up this roaming network. I really like to understand the inner workings of the technology I use and now have a much better understanding of not only this network, but networks in general. I consider myself extremely fortunate that you are the person who found my question and chose to respond! I imagine there will be many others looking to address problems similar to mine; this thread should be a great resource to them!

Thanks very, very much, Bob.

Phyllis

Hi Bob,

Three years ago you helped me set up a roaming wireless network in my home. It's been rock-steady and I'm forever grateful to you for the time and guidance you gave me. I'd now like to swap out my AirPort Extreme base station for a time capsule. As I understand it, I should be able to unplug the base station and replace it with the TC without problem, so long as I use all the same settings on my TC... network name, security protocol, password, etc. Given the complexity of my network, I thought I should check with you first for any advice you might have. I don't want to set up a new network or make any changes to the existing one-- with the exception of using the TC in place of the AE. I'm already using Time Machine for backups. As a refresher, my current setup has the AE as base station and 3 expresses hard-wired with Ethernet connections elsewhere in my home. I have a 4th express set up wirelessly to use with my stereo system at the front of the house. All AXs are 'n's and are set up, as per your instructions, in Bridge mode to extend the existing network. I'm running the most updated version of Mavericks on my MBPro. Any suggestions you might have will be, as always, very much appreciated! Sincerely, Phyllis Sommers

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I'd like to alter my Airport Extreme/Airport Express wireless network so that the 3 Expresses connect to the Extreme via Ethernet. I've been told this will create a more stable wifi signal. How do I configure this using Airport Utility? Thanks.

2000 Views 29 Replies Latest reply: May 31, 2014 11:52 AM by Phyllis Sommers

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Level 9 (77,580 points)

Bob Timmons Texas

Re: I'd like to alter my Airport Extreme/Airport Express wireless network so that the 3 Expresses connect to the Extreme via Ethernet. I've been told this will create a more stable wifi signal. How do I configure this using Airport Utility? Thanks.

Apr 21, 2011 10:05 AM (in response to Phyllis Sommers)

In a normal "extended" network using only wireless to connect between the main router and the extending devices, inteference can be picked up in two places:

1) The wireless signal between the main router and the extending device

2) The wireless signal between the extending device and the computer receiving the signal from that device

With a network design that connects the extending devices to the main router using an ethernet connection, you eliminate the possibility of interference being picked up in the communications between your main router and any of the extending devices. That's huge.

Chances are, you will be amazed at the improvement in your network with the changes that you are considering.

But, if you have not yet paid to have the ethernet cabling installed throughout your home, which I know is a considerable expense...because I've paid for the same services at my house....have you thought about this?

Have the install guys pull the ethernet cabling through the house, down the halls, etc. before any holes are drilled or cabling is routed through the attic, etc. Yes...the house will no doubt be a mess for a day or two with wires running everywhere.

Hook up everything together and get the network configured and up and running....and test it out. This will provide you with a very accurate "preview" of the actual performance that you can expect before the cabling is installed behind the walls, etc. As an added advantage, with loose cabling you will be able to experiment a bit with the location of the various "extending" devices to get an even better idea of where the best locations for each device will be.

Make sense? Worst case, the system does not live up to expectation and you are out the cost of the ethernet cabling. But, you save a ton on labor expense. Best case, you see immediate improvement in the performance of your network and as such, you'll be able to justify the installation labor expense.

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Phyllis Sommers

Re: I'd like to alter my Airport Extreme/Airport Express wireless network so that the 3 Expresses connect to the Extreme via Ethernet. I've been told this will create a more stable wifi signal. How do I configure this using Airport Utility? Thanks.

Apr 21, 2011 10:38 AM (in response to Bob Timmons)

Fortunately, we wired our home for Ethernet long ago, before we converted to wireless, so everything is basically ready. We just have to have someone go under the house and pull a couple of the wires to different spots in the rooms. It should be pretty straightforward (we know how that goes, though, right?), but I plan to ask the tech to assess the situation before going forward. Your detail and expertise have convinced me it's worth it to convert to the Ethernet connections. If it truly will be a fairly simple task to reinstate our Ethernet, it shouldn't be too expensive, just a bit of a headache for the tech-- there are so many wires and cables under our house, it's not to be believed! If it doesn't accomplish what we're hoping for, given everything you've said, I still think it will be a positive move.

I came so close to "getting there" by adding one more Express: whereas I used to have 2 rooms sever connection to the Extreme every time I ran the microwave, with the added Express, 1 room stays stable now and the 2nd room only severs connection some of the time. I'd been toying with the idea of trying to solve the problem by adding yet one more Express; but after all your suggestions, and the fact that some of the guys at the Apple Store had also recommended Ethernet, I feel that Ethernet has the best chance of solving our problem. Worst case, I'll have to continue to reset after interference, which I'm doing now, anyway, but I think that will be a lot less likely with the Ethernet connection. I'm pretty sure our connection is breaking between the Extreme and the Express, not between the device and the Express. I had a tough time even installing the Expresses in their current locations, because the signal to the Extreme was so weak. I maximized the signal through a lot of tweaking Channels, locations, etc.; but the fact that it gets severed, shows it clearly isn't strong enough to withstand the microwave interference.

I can't thank you enough for all your support and interest. I have always found the variety of network configurations, as explained by Apple documents, to be somewhat confusing and have had to muddle along on my own to find what would work best in my home. Your explanations have given me a much better understanding of the various network options and have really helped me determine how to proceed. I will let you know the upshot of all this, hopefully within the next couple of days. I hope I haven't taken up too much of your time with all my questions and really appreciate the thoroughness with which you answered each and every one of them!

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Level 1 (35 points)

Phyllis Sommers

Re: I'd like to alter my Airport Extreme/Airport Express wireless network so that the 3 Expresses connect to the Extreme via Ethernet. I've been told this will create a more stable wifi signal. How do I configure this using Airport Utility? Thanks.

Apr 22, 2011 4:01 PM (in response to Bob Timmons)

Hi Bob,

Well, I'm all set up with my old Ethernet connections connecting my AEBS to my 3 Airport Expresses. I've run my microwave and so far, so good; however, since I'd added the extra Express last week, the microwave situation had been a little more stable. There have been times when my Expresses and Extreme have been holding the connection, so I really need to see how everything behaves over the course of a few days, to be absolutely sure the problem's been corrected. I'm pretty sure the connections will be stable, though, as I'm positive that the connection that was being broken was the one between the Extreme and the Express. Now that they're hardwired, those connections should hold steady.

The one thing I have not yet done is power everything down and start things up one at a time. Without yet having done that, everything is still working seamlessly. Currently, my Internet speeds are as good or better as they've ever been and I have strong wi-fi everywhere. Do you still think I should go through the efforts of powering everything down and re-booting each, one at a time? If everything's working so well now, what would I accomplish by going through the power-down ritual?

Assuming all works well over the weekend, I will post an update at the beginning of next week to let you know how things are going. I can't thank you enough for all the help and explicit instructions you provided. If you get a chance, I'd love to know what you think about the powering down issue. Meanwhile, have a great weekend.

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

Phyllis

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Level 9 (77,580 points)

Bob Timmons Texas

Re: I'd like to alter my Airport Extreme/Airport Express wireless network so that the 3 Expresses connect to the Extreme via Ethernet. I've been told this will create a more stable wifi signal. How do I configure this using Airport Utility? Thanks.

Apr 22, 2011 6:00 PM (in response to Phyllis Sommers)

Glad that things are working well.

Ii believe it is always a good idea to power cycle any network after any changes are made to a network. But, it's up to you to decide. If you experience any "hiccups", it's the first step to perform in the troubleshooting process.

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Level 1 (35 points)

Phyllis Sommers

Re: I'd like to alter my Airport Extreme/Airport Express wireless network so that the 3 Expresses connect to the Extreme via Ethernet. I've been told this will create a more stable wifi signal. How do I configure this using Airport Utility? Thanks.

Apr 25, 2011 10:57 PM (in response to Bob Timmons)

Well, not to your surprise, I'm sure, things have worked out fantastically well with our new roaming network! My microwave doesn't even interfere with the network when the micro is running, let alone after it's stopped! I've never seen the performance I'm now getting on my iPad and iPhone, the Internet speeds on my MacBook Pro are the best they've ever been, my husband's web pages are loading much faster than ever and, of course, our home network is now much stronger and more stable! I haven't powered down and recycled everything yet, either. I figure I can do that anytime and might as well wait until there's a more specific reason for doing so. I realize things might possibly improve slightly more once this is done. My AT&T DSL modem can be a little finicky in connecting to the network after a power recycle, however, and I'm just too pleased with everything right now to have to start troubleshooting again.

I truly can't thank you enough for your thorough and detailed explanations of both the how's and why's of setting up this roaming network. I really like to understand the inner workings of the technology I use and now have a much better understanding of not only this network, but networks in general. I consider myself extremely fortunate that you are the person who found my question and chose to respond! I imagine there will be many others looking to address problems similar to mine; this thread should be a great resource to them!

Thanks very, very much, Bob.

Phyllis

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Level 9 (77,580 points)

Bob Timmons Texas

Re: I'd like to alter my Airport Extreme/Airport Express wireless network so that the 3 Expresses connect to the Extreme via Ethernet. I've been told this will create a more stable wifi signal. How do I configure this using Airport Utility? Thanks.

Apr 26, 2011 6:11 AM (in response to Phyllis Sommers)

You are very welcome! Glad that things are working well for you!

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Imatt66

Re: I'd like to alter my Airport Extreme/Airport Express wireless network so that the 3 Expresses connect to the Extreme via Ethernet. I've been told this will create a more stable wifi signal. How do I configure this using Airport Utility? Thanks.

Aug 12, 2011 4:47 AM (in response to Bob Timmons)

Hi there. Just been reading this with interest as I look to extend my home netword (or maybe not..). Basically I have a very simple network at present - a single Airport extreme base station. I also have a Time Capsule for Time Maching back-up, but that is set only to "join" the network - it is hidden in the same room as the base station so would be no point setting this to extend the network, and I want to leave that in its hiding place to keep my back-ups safe (hopefully).

Anyway, in one room I get quite a weak signal so had thought that the way to go was to get a second airport and configure that to wirelessly "extend" my network (I don't have ethernet cabling around the house). However, reading one of the apple support pages linked above I read that this can actually reduce data throughput by 60% or more as against using the single base station - this because of extra network "management". Do you know how much of an issue this would really be with a wirelessly extended netork comprising on extreme and one express? My concern is that I could end up with a stronger signal in the room in question but end up with slower connection speeds than I currently have with my weaker signal.

I mentioned this issue to one of my colleagues today (in our IT department at work), he has no experience with apple products but suggested that I would be better using the Devolo system which provides ethernet connection over the mains electricity circuit, so that I could then configure my air port express as a second base station via ethernet, which I understand is bar the best approach. I wonder however if there are any issues using airport with such an "ethernet over mains" system.

Finally, given my existing base station is an airport extreme, will me airport express be sufficient or do I really need a second airport extreme?

Thanks for any help and advice you can offer.

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Level 9 (77,580 points)

Bob Timmons Texas

Re: I'd like to alter my Airport Extreme/Airport Express wireless network so that the 3 Expresses connect to the Extreme via Ethernet. I've been told this will create a more stable wifi signal. How do I configure this using Airport Utility? Thanks.

Aug 12, 2011 7:37 AM (in response to Imatt66)

Sorry, I am not familiar with the Devolo system, so I cannot comment on that specific product.

If your AirPort Exreme is a newer simultaneous dual band version....and you want to extend both bands....then you will need another dual band AirPort Extreme to do this since the AirPort Express is a single band device.

If you have an older single band version of the AirPort Extreme, then the AirPort Express will work fine for the extending purposes.

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Imatt66

Re: I'd like to alter my Airport Extreme/Airport Express wireless network so that the 3 Expresses connect to the Extreme via Ethernet. I've been told this will create a more stable wifi signal. How do I configure this using Airport Utility? Thanks.

Aug 12, 2011 8:20 AM (in response to Bob Timmons)

Thanks Bob. My extreme is dual band, but as to whether I want to extend both bands - well I'm not sure what I need really. From a position of some ignorance I assume extending both bands would be "better" than just extending one band, but I'm not sure if that is what I need. If extending only one band will improve the network as a whole then that might be enough for me. I then just have the issue of whether the improvement in signal to all corners of the house will outweight the apparent potential for loss of performance because I increase the complexity of the network. Do you have a view on what I might expect, or does it come down to giving it a try and see what happens"?

Your help is very much appreciated.

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Level 9 (77,580 points)

Bob Timmons Texas

Re: I'd like to alter my Airport Extreme/Airport Express wireless network so that the 3 Expresses connect to the Extreme via Ethernet. I've been told this will create a more stable wifi signal. How do I configure this using Airport Utility? Thanks.

Aug 12, 2011 9:52 AM (in response to Imatt66)

Typically, you will experience a network bandwidth loss of about 10-15% if you try to extend with a device using wireless only.

Ij you establish an Ethernet connection between the "main" router and the "remote" AirPort, you will not lose any measurable bandwidth on the network....and you can locate the "remote" device exactly where you need it.

This is not usually the case when extending using wireless only because the "remote" device must be located where it can receive a strong wireless signal from the main router.

Any good commercial wireless network with multiple access points is always designed with a "main" router and mutliple wireless access points all connecting back to the "main" hub or router.

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Imatt66

Re: I'd like to alter my Airport Extreme/Airport Express wireless network so that the 3 Expresses connect to the Extreme via Ethernet. I've been told this will create a more stable wifi signal. How do I configure this using Airport Utility? Thanks.

Aug 12, 2011 12:26 PM (in response to Bob Timmons)

Thanks again Bob.

So what I will do is get the Devolo "ethernet over mains" plugs which, if they work, should give me the equivalent of an ethernet network. I will then establish the Airpor express as a second access point - a second base station with "ethernet" connection to the main base station (existing Airport extreme), and place that in the room where I need it. As I understand my wireless devices (macbook, iPad) in that room will then connect to the best available wi-fi signal which will likely be the single band signal from the airport express.

Will let you know how that works, but in the meantime one more question (two related set-up questions really) if you don't mind. In reading around this stuff and exploring the manual set-up options for my existing extreme bases station in Airport Utility, I clicked on the "Wireless Network Options" under the "Wireless" tab and noticed the following:

the "5Ghz Network Name" box is not checked, but I believe that is OK - that is as far as I can understand it my extreme will be operating over both 2.4GHz and 5GHz simultaneoulsly ( both "radion Mode" and "Radio Channel Selection" are set to "Automatic" in the wireless tab) and I ony need to check this box if I want to separately name the 5GHz network (which I don't believe I do). Is that right?

the "Multicast Rate" is set to low - I don't think this affects my basic internet browsing speeds over the wi-fi network, but not entirely sure I wouldn't just set this to high? For instance I might use the iPad 2 for TV streaming via the BBC iPlayer (I'm across the water in the UK).

Thanks again.

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Imatt66

Re: I'd like to alter my Airport Extreme/Airport Express wireless network so that the 3 Expresses connect to the Extreme via Ethernet. I've been told this will create a more stable wifi signal. How do I configure this using Airport Utility? Thanks.

Aug 16, 2011 11:00 PM (in response to Imatt66)

Happy to report the Develo "ethernet over mains" works a treat. I went for the "200kbps AV Plus mini" - http://www.devolo.com/consumer/72_dlan-200-avmini_starter-kit_product-presentati on_1.html?l=en

Just connect one Devolo "plug" to the extreme via a supplied Ethernet cable then plug into the mains power socket, then do the same with a second "plug" in the room with the express. Wait a minute. And that's it - my two base stations are connected via Ethernet ( I had previously configured the airport express by connecting it directly to the extreme whilst I was waiting for the Devolo to arrive in the mail).

My iPad now has a full wi-fi signal and data streaming in the previously troublesome room.

The only thing I have noticed is that is as I move the iPad away from the express the signal drops even as I get closer to the extreme, and then becomes very weak as I get to the room with the extreme in for a short time (less than a minute) before it returns to full strength. I assume that what is happening is that the iPad holds it's wi-fi connection to the express then switching over to the extreme at some discreet point in time. This is fine of course, but in my ignorance I had thought the wi-fi signals from both base stations would just merge into one as it were - rather than the iPad being connected to one or the other at any given time.

Anyway, have learnt a lot from the help you have provided and am very happy with my new and improved network, so thanks again.

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parasfromtoronto

Re: I'd like to alter my Airport Extreme/Airport Express wireless network so that the 3 Expresses connect to the Extreme via Ethernet. I've been told this will create a more stable wifi signal. How do I configure this using Airport Utility? Thanks.

Aug 17, 2011 12:48 AM (in response to Bob Timmons)

Hi Bob-

I am having issues with my TC and extending a 2wire network. Is there any chance I could call you directly?

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parasfromtoronto

Re: I'd like to alter my Airport Extreme/Airport Express wireless network so that the 3 Expresses connect to the Extreme via Ethernet. I've been told this will create a more stable wifi signal. How do I configure this using Airport Utility? Thanks.

Aug 17, 2011 12:49 AM (in response to parasfromtoronto)

Bob-

You can reach me at shahman2@hotmail.com

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Level 1 (35 points)

Phyllis Sommers

Re: I'd like to alter my Airport Extreme/Airport Express wireless network so that the 3 Expresses connect to the Extreme via Ethernet. I've been told this will create a more stable wifi signal. How do I configure this using Airport Utility? Thanks.

May 31, 2014 11:52 AM (in response to Bob Timmons)

Hi Bob,

Three years ago you helped me set up a roaming wireless network in my home. It's been rock-steady and I'm forever grateful to you for the time and guidance you gave me. I'd now like to swap out my AirPort Extreme base station for a time capsule. As I understand it, I should be able to unplug the base station and replace it with the TC without problem, so long as I use all the same settings on my TC... network name, security protocol, password, etc. Given the complexity of my network, I thought I should check with you first for any advice you might have. I don't want to set up a new network or make any changes to the existing one-- with the exception of using the TC in place of the AE. I'm already using Time Machine for backups. As a refresher, my current setup has the AE as base station and 3 expresses hard-wired with Ethernet connections elsewhere in my home. I have a 4th express set up wirelessly to use with my stereo system at the front of the house. All AXs are 'n's and are set up, as per your instructions, in Bridge mode to extend the existing network. I'm running the most updated version of Mavericks on my MBPro. Any suggestions you might have will be, as always, very much appreciated! Sincerely, Phyllis Sommers