Powermac Quicksilver Won't Boot OS 9

Maronan wrote:

Is the issue exclusively one of ROMs or is there actually a special build of OS 9 that was created just for these machines?

In my experience the difference between the different model-specific OS 9 installers is simply machine-specific versions of the Mac OS ROM files. To boot OS 9.2.2 in a QS '02 the QS-specific OS 9.2.2 installer must have version 9.0.1 of the Mac OS ROM as a requirement. A list of what versions of the Mac OS ROM go with what hardware can be found here:

http://support.apple.com/kb/TA22055?viewlocale=en_US

If I snagged a ROM off an iMac flat panel (yes I have one!) and dropped it into the system folder I pulled from an iMac G3 Summer 2000 with universal install of 9.2.2, would that be enough?

I think it just might be as simple as that. Do a 'Get Info' on the ROM in the System Folder in your flat panel iMac. Or maybe better yet, if you have the model-specific OS 9.2.2 install disk for the flat panel iMac, put it in your optical drive and then go into the System Folder on the install disk and do a 'Get Info' on the Mac OS ROM file there. For comparison the relevant info is:

Size: 3MB (3, 174, 475 bytes)

Created: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 @ 12:00 PM

Modified: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 @ 12:00 PM

Version: 9.0.1

If they're the same, try copying it from the disk to the System Folder on your QS '02 and then try booting the QS from OS 9.2.2.

For that matter, the 2005 eMac came with a copy of OSX 10.4 plus an OS 9.2.2 system folder to power the Classic Environment with ROM version 10.2.1 or something like that. Since the eMac 2005 can natively boot OSX only, I've only been able to use that OS9 system folder to run Classic, but Startup Disk on the dual-boot-capable Quicksilver recognised it as a valid boot volume. Dare I ask what would happen if I directed it to start up from that system folder? I'd probably have to boot into Leopard to re-bless the OSX system on that partition, right?

I doubt you'd have to re-bless the System Folder. I'd say it simply just wouldn't boot. To your QS it is a valid boot volume; it simply lacks the proper model-specific boot ROM (v. 9.0.1) that the QS requires to successfully boot OS 9.2.2.

Anyway, try copying the ROM over from your flat panel iMac to your QuickSilver and see if you can boot OS 9.2.2 from it. Let us know how it goes…

*This model is capable of booting MacOS 9 and using MacOS 9 applications within the MacOS X "Classic" environment provided with MacOS X 10.4.11 "Tiger" and lower ("Classic" is not supported starting with MacOS X 10.5 "Leopard").

http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g4/stats/powermac_g4_1ghz_dp_qs.h tml

But, for one thing, it must be on the 1st Partition & that Partition must be less than 190GB/200GB.

Hi, Moranon -

Maronan wrote:

Does the Quicksilver 2002 require a model-specific version of OS9 like the Mirrored Drive Doors? I'd thought it would be happy with a retail copy?

And if it does require a model-specific version, would the copy of OS 9.2.2 that came with an eMac ATI Graphics make an acceptable substitute? That was another OS9/OSX transition machine and I actually have the system disc for it.

Yes, the QS '02 requires a model-specific version of OS 9.2.2 for OS 9-booting. See -

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1835

Even though you used the 'universal install' option to build the OS9.2.2 on your firewire drive, the downloads used just aren't new enough for the QS '02's needs.

It is doubtful that the version from the eMac will suffice. You can certainly try it (won't cost anything but time), and serendipity may intrude. Odds are aginst it working, though.

Your QuickSilver 2002 needs version 9.0.1 of the 'Mac OS ROM' file to be in your System Folder in order to boot OS 9.2.2. The Mac OS ROM file in your eMac 9.2.2 install disk is newer (v. 9.2.1) and 'might' work, but you won't know until you try.

Other model-specific OS 9.2.2 install disks that use v. 9.0.1 of the Mac OS ROM file are the "iMac (Summer 2001)" and the "iMac (Flat Panel)". These disks 'might' work as well.

That said, I've found that I've never had any problem using the model-specific OS 9.2.2 install disk that came with my QuickSilver 2002 to install OS 9.2.2 on my PowerBook G3 (Pismo) or my GigaBit Ethernet G4, so maybe they're not as 'model-specific' as they're said to be…

Maronan wrote:

Ah, it didn't. There was a catch: The flat-panel iMac had no OS9 install and therefore, no ROM. Just OSX 10.2 and not even Classic. I got it off Craigslist; that it came with a hard drive and an operating system at all is kind of a plus. Quicksilver itself is still running off the firewire drive while I try to find a donor IDE drive for it.

By the way, the handy model to ROM chart says the ATI Graphics eMac should have ROM version 9.2.1 but it actually has ROM version 10.1.1 instead. Is that a product of a later update? It was my sister's computer for awhile before she upgraded to a Macbook and gave it to me, so I'm sure it got all the Apple-recommended updates back when it was still a current model (or at least a supported machine). That wouldn't explain why it wouldn't boot from its own system folder on the external drive, though.

I just ran MacTracker and it says it was the original eMac (the immediate predecessor of the ATI Graphics eMac) that had ROM version 9.2.1. It doesn't list any ROM version at all for the ATI Graphics eMac, just says OS 9.2.2 (non-SuperDrive). I'll take your word for it that ATI Graphics eMac's ROM is 10.1.1 though I've never heard of any of the Classic Mac ROMs going above 9.5.1. I wonder why the Apple Knowledge Base document doesn't list the ATI Graphics eMac?

As long as I was in the experimenting mood, I also decided to check if the Quicksilver would boot off the OS9 install CD that came with the ATI Graphics eMac. Unfortunately, I was thwarted yet again, this time by the fact that the Quicksilver's disc drive seems to be stuck and wouldn't open; any ideas on how to fix that? Who would have thunk that a computer I got off Craigslist for $7 would have so many problems? 😉

There's a couple or three ways to get the drive tray to open. First, the obvious one; the open tray key on the keyboard…if you have one the symbol looks like an upward pointing triangle with a horizontal bar underneath it. If you don't have such a key try pressing the 'F12' function key. If that doesn't work restart your QS '02 and when you hear the startup chime immediately hold down your mouse button and keep it held down for the duration of the boot sequence. Holding down the mouse button will force the tray on the optical drive open at some point. And if that doesn't work then it's time to bring out the big guns: First see if you can scare up a paperclip. Then find something thin and sharp and slip it in between the body of your QS and the optical drive tray door. When you have the tray door open lay a pencil or something on it to prevent it from springing closed again. Straighten out the paperclip and look for a small pinhole on the front of the optical drive bezel just below the tray. When you find the pinhole put the straightened paperclip straight into the hole and push. This should force the drive tray to open.

I think the next step is to use the eMac (which is being very cooperative) and install OS9 outright onto the unused partition rather than simply copy the system folder. Once I've convinced the eMac to boot OS9 off that partition, I'll see if Quicksilver is willing to do the same. If that doesn't work, then I think I've spotted a download link somewhere for a set of images of system restore discs for a Mirrored Drive Doors; since that was another Mac that wants a model-specific version of OS9, I might download the OS9 restore disc and see how model-specific it is; a MDD is a lot closer to a Quicksilver than an eMac is. For some reason, the MDD doesn't appear on the model to ROM list; here's hoping I'll find a copy of 9.0.1 on that disc.

I've got one more idea on how to get your QS to boot OS 9.2.2. Click on my name on the top left of this post and you'll see my email address. Send me an email and I'll spill the beans… =)

Bill

Maronan wrote:

...you swapped my o's and a's; was that intentional? :O

Not at all intentional - I tend to do that to numbers, too. Missed the error on proofreading my reply. Sorry 'bout that.

Maronan wrote:

Apparently, this model-specific variant of OS9 actually requires more than its system folder to be bootable; I don't suppose it actually requires a parallel OSX install, does it?

It should not require a parallell or co-habitant OSX install. When booting to OS 9, all things OSX are just non-readable data files and can not interfere with, nor be used by, OS 9.

Things that can prevent such an install from being bootable -

• The volume in question does not have OS 9 drivers installed.

• The volume in question is larger than 200GB.

• The eMac has a SuperDrive (rather than a CD-ROM or Combo drive).

*****

You might try something, if the OS 9.2.2 install CD for your eMac is a stand-alone disk that boots to OS 9 (rather than being part of a combo disk set which boots to OSX). Some of the stand-alone OEM OS 9 install CDs can do a universal install of the OS; most, if not all, of those for the PowerMac G4s can do so, for example.

Maronan wrote:

But I thought if there were no OS9 drivers, the disk wouldn't mount in OS9? All five partitions have mounted and appeared in OS 9.1 through 9.2.2 so I guess that's not the issue.

Correct. If they have been mounting when the machine is booted to OS 9 (any OS 9, on hard drive or optical disk), then all should be well in that regard.

One other item I neglected to mention - the volume's format should be Mac OS Extended (also called HFS+). For OS 9 booting it must be either Mac OS Extended (HFS+) or Mac OS Standard (HFS); no other format is OS 9 bootable. Although HFS will work, OS 9 behaves much better on an HFS+ volume; and HFS+ is much more efficient in how it uses the space (in volumes 1GB or larger the space penalty for using HFS gets nasty).

FWIW, HFS+ is the only format usable by both OSX and OS 9 for booting.

Maronan wrote:

I pushed the open button on the keyboard first; the traditional way of opening it. I heard it go "thunk thunk" as the drive pushed against the outer door (or something) but it didn't open; ultimately, it gave up and retracted. I tried to pull the outer door but there was nowhere obvious to pull at it. On the eMac, there's an obvious edge to pull down when the door gets stuck (and it does, stupid tray loading drives). Since restarting with the mouse button isn't going to do much good with the door being physically stuck and all, I guess it's off to look for something thin and sharp to pry the tray door open? I'm pretty sure the drive will work once I do that; it sounded pretty functional in there. (And I have no shortage of drives in case it's not.)

Can't imagine why the optical drive door won't open. Have you had it open before without any problem? Possibly it's not the door, but more likely the original Apple supplied drive has been replaced with a third party drive and the part of the bezel that attaches to the tray may be a bit too tall to clear the opening in the frame. I replaced the original drive with a third party Toshiba burner and I had to remove that part of the bezel that attaches to the tray to get it to open properly. When you get the door open you'll be able to see the tray and whatever is impeding it when you press the open tray key on the keyboard.

PS— Your email address isn't listed in your profile (you see it if you're logged in; other people don't unless you make it public which is probably not a good idea anyway) but I would like to hear your thoughts on how to add OS9 to this thing.

My email address should be visible to you now. It's been visible on these forums for years and I've suffered no ill effects yet. Since Apple changed the forum format I haven't quite figured out how to reset all my preferences.