Final Cut Pro X - Import AVCHD?

HQ is designed specifically for media that's larger than 2K. It's a film intermediate codec. It will do nothing for AVCHD media except make larger file sizes.

I agree Tom.

I've done a very thorough test with ProResLT, ProRes & ProResHQ when transcoding my 1080p60 files off the TM900 and can't see any difference in frame detail or color richness between the 3 codecs. I transcode all my 60p files to LT and save a huge amount of space and computer resources vs the other 2 codecs (especially HQ).

Aqaurius,

I believe Photo Ninja used the straight H.264 export default out of FCPX and not Compressor. I could be mistaken, but he and I have the same cam. When I edit my 60p footage, I choose cmd - E and change the export settings from "Current Settings" to H.264. It produces the exact data rate, frame rate and frame size as Photo Ninja's video (1080p60 @ 30mbps+). It will play on most any Mac produced since 2006 and plays perfectly on my Blu-ray Server running Win7 64bit Media Center. If I export to AppleTV, I loose an incredible amount of detail and smoothness (IMO), but my wife still loves the videos and isn't bothered...so we're both happy. For now, my 60p work flow using ClipWrap is satisfactory.

I'm still testing Canon's HF G10 shooting 60i and using JES Interlacer on output to give my output a 60p look. As it stands right now, the output files have been astonishing and would be more than happy to switch to the Canon if it allowed me to archive my SD cards, retain my event date metadata (using clipwrap does not), edit in native AVCHD, save a lot of hard drive space and time from transcoding and be able to export a video file that was on par with the quality of the TM900. Things are starting to point to the Canon in that regard. Although more testing is needed, I see my hang up being the $700 difference. The Low Light on the Canon squashes the TM by a large margin. The AF tracking is incredibly superior as well. Those 2 things alone might push me over the edge since my sole purpose of this camera is to capture my 2 yo (and counting) daughters life. She's on the move constantly in doors and out and the TM's AF tracking is only available in Full Auto mode (I like to shoot in manual) and the Low Light is very very grainy contrary to what they boast in their adverts. I had a TM700 before this 900 and I don't see much of a difference in Low Light performance.

I'm glad to see this thread is helping others. I too have found a huge amount of info on this thread specifically and appreciate everyone's input. This seems like one of the few threads I've participated in where it doesn't go off track or completely sideways. Nice!

Respectfully,

Gene

If you've gotten the native H264 originals into the FCPX events, eg directly from the camera archive or after being rewrapped by ClipWrap, then you can specify ProResHQ at export time and the output will be rendered from the original H264 files directly into ProResHQ.

This applies whether in the timeline you were working on the native H264 files, optimized copies or proxy copies. The quality cannot get any better than this. We get to choose the timeline format depending entirely on our CPU and GPU capabilities so that our editing workflow is fast. With a fast CPU and GPU one might as well work entirely on native H264 files.

However if before importing you transcode your MTS data into ProRes, using any of the available transcoding options, then there will be some (probably undetectable) quality loss. If you used a crappy ProRes encoder, you will lose data. Additionally It will take time to make these intermediary files, and they will be big.

So long as you can get the H264 originals into FCPX I see no point in pre-transcoding to ProRes at all. It is only necessary if you can't read the MTS files from your cameras AVCHD structure directly into FCPX, or if after doing so you find it can't play 1080-50p/60p. They you have no choice but to transcode before importing.

The final 'master' export choice is simple. Try exporting to a ProRes file, and try exporting the same clips to a ProResHQ file. Look very closely at them at 100%. Do you see a difference? If there's none, you don't need ProResHQ export.

Is there any point in having an 'import optimized' option that makes your timeline display ProResHQ? I doubt it. This is not the file that will be used to create your exported master anyway - that will be built from the originals. Your timeline quality is irrelevant to exporting a master.

As far as video quality for distribution is concerned, there will always be a quality vs bandwidth trade-off. H264 is just about the most efficient codec today. Tweaking x264Encoder settings can get better quality but if you mess with the settings you might not play back on all devices. However I find I get a better tradeoff with that codec than the Apple H264 codec, generally the same visual quality at half the data size. I just select it in Compressor and have read extensively about using it. You'll need to like detail and experimentation if you want to go down this route, as the optimisations depend on the source video and intended target and are non-trivial.

The new AVCHD standard for 1080p50/60 suggests up to 28Mbps as the h264 video data rate in this mode. This data rate in the camera, and the quality of the encoder, will be the limiting quality factor in the video we shoot. Not whether or not we view ProRes or ProRes HQ in the timeline. Ninja's video looked good because the lens was sharp, the shutter speed high, lighting was good and he had a high data rate progressive sensor. The same video would have had even higher video quality at 24p at the same data rate, but it would be jerkier because there would be more movement between frames. That it looked good had very little to do with the workflow, and everything to do with the source video.

So go out there and shoot great clips! And don't worry so much about this stuff. It's fairly easy to get such a high level of quality these days, that creativity is a far greater challenge.

Cheers

Chris.

Nice one Chris! Nice one!

Wow! Thanks for all the replies.

While using FCP X yesterday I was able to import .mts AVCHD clips directly from the Sony XR-520 camera and started working on the project without any problem. But today, the camera starts loading in the "import from camera" menu then disappears and I just can't explain why everything worked fine only yesterday while knowing that I haven't changed anything in the settings?

Hi,

Did you change anything in your camera settings? I haven't checked but your camera should be able to record in 1080p60, 1080i60, and 1080p30. Are you trying to import 1080p60 MTS clips now whereas yesterday they were 1080i60 or 1080p30?

Hi,

I can confirm what Mike reported earlier. With ClipWrap 2.4.2a2 the clipwrapped AVCHD 1080p50/60 H264 stream within the MTS files can now be ingested natively in FCPX and it works perfectly.

Cheers

@Aquarius, No I didn't change the settings, neither in the camera or FCPX!

@Meher, then I'm sorry, but I can't help you.

@Chris, @Gene, working with the originals does create better video, and one doesn't have to worry about all the other stuff like tweaking technical export settings, and frame rates, and data rates, and so on. Gene is right, export straight to H.264. And Chris is right, if your source video looked great your export will look great. Now I understand that the export happens from the originals and the quality of the timeline doesn't matter. What a relief. After everything I've tried with the pre-transcoding prior to import. For me the timeline and originals were the same transcoded ProRes files so I had to make sure that they had the highest quality. With ClipWrap 2.4.2a2 no need for any of this anymore. And the quality of the export is amazing.

Cheers

@Photo Ninja: Where can I download the AVCHD plugin for Media Converter?

EDIT: I found it: http://media-converter.sourceforge.net/presets.html

The Photo Ninja wrote:

Workflow was copy the mts files to the hard drive and then use the freeware media converter and the free plugin avchd rewrap. Then import into FCPX. Works like a charm

I did exactly the same thing but I have a black screen in the timeline and the same thing when I export the video! Did you change something in the settings?

Media Converter works for the files from my new Sony HDR-CX560V but not from my older Sony HDR-SR7 (black screen, etc.)

Why the difference? No clue.

Anyone else?

Also, clipwrap works on my old files, but not the newer HDR-CX560V.

Is there a perfect all in one solution?

- Noah

...and @Mike, well done!

Hi Noah (Photo Ninja),

I was hoping you'd pop your head up again. I've been wanting to PM/Email you since last week, but your profile doesn't allow.

From your original post, I made up that you had a TM-900, not a CX560V. Do you have both or was I mistaken?

I've been wanting to ask you some questions regarding your 60p footage which is off topic of this thread.

Would you be willing to talk via email or otherwise? My email should be visible from my profile page.

I would appreciate any help you can offer.

Thanks,

Gene