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A Cardiologist with a broken "apple"

Tonight, I installed a new scanner Canon 8400F. After installing it and doing a restart, the computer "froze" at the grey apple screen with "a circle" constantly turning. It would not start my Tiger OS10. I turned the machine off several times and unplugged it to no avail.

I saw on the internet (throught another computer) that a way to start it was getting rid of the PRAM so I did it and it started my system in a older version (desktop and files were old and different).

I then attempted to run disk utility but was unable to open the file. Actually, I was not able to open up safari (but was internet explorer) and not able to open up system preferences.

Using the discussion board, I used fsck which I ran several times and it kept on saying that it ran successfully but continued to say the "files were modified".

I still cant open up safari or disk utilities when I reboot.

What can I do?
Is there any way for me to get back to my old "tiger" way including my files and desktop.

I smartly have backed up all my files and photos using backup onto a external hard drive.

Also, the system now does not recognize that I have 2 hard drives and only saws the system HD?

Please help me!!! I will give you a discount on any future angioplasties!!!

G4, Mac OS X (10.4.4), 2G SDRAM,

Posted on Jan 15, 2006 11:29 PM

Reply
14 replies

Jan 17, 2006 6:54 AM in response to Rajiv Jauhar

I am thinking that will the loss of data and the fact the Mac only sees one of your hard drives, that the other HD bit the dust (kicked the bucket, etc, etc)

Find your OS X Tiger DVD. Pop it in the machine, restart it, holding the C button down on the keyboard. This will boot to the DVD. Run Disk Utility from the DVD. Verify the Disk using D.U. - see if they both show up, and if one of them (or both) fail the SMART test.

iSMH

Jan 17, 2006 12:42 PM in response to Rajiv Jauhar

If the problem started with the installation of the Canon scanner there is likely some software that was installed that is creating problems.

You should be able to start with the shift key held down which will prevent any third party in the Start up Items preference from being loaded. Of course this is only if you can get the computer to acknowledge the existence of your main boot drive. (I am a little confused as to whether or not you can actually get the computer to attempt to boot from this drive by your explanation).

You should also be able to insert your install disk into the computer and run Disk Utilities from the install disk. If you have the Tiger disk, use it as there are improvements to Disk Utility in the 10.4 operating system. Place the install disk into the computer, select Restart from the menu and after the computer screen goes blank, press the c key to boot from the install disk. An installer window will appear. Quit the installer and go up to the menu at the top of the screen and open Disk Utility.

Repair the Tiger installation first then repair the permissions. If the utility says that it cannot repair the hard drive then you will either have to reinstall or purchase a utility like Disk Warrior. If the Repair said that modifications were made, run it again until it reports that all is well.

Assuming that all goes well with the Repair,you should also have the ability to select a startup disk from the install cd/dvd. Select the Tiger hard drive and boot with the shift key held down to shut off start up items. When/if you get to your desktop open Preferences and select Accounts. Open your account and put a minus sign (turn off ) any Canon startup items and reboot.

Report back any progress.

Jan 17, 2006 8:46 PM in response to Carl Jerris

I did as you said and installed the Tiger install disk and pressed c. I got to disk utilities where I ran repairs on my HD and it failed with an error message.
Yesterday, I ordered techtool pro 4 which was delivered overnight to me. I ran the advanced tests which showed 71 bad blocks of disk. It stated that I need to zero out my hard drive. Right now I am in the process of data recovery using techtool pro although I am relieved that I have an external HD and use backup 3.0 regularly (weekly)as well as carbon cloner every 6 months.
Once I zero out the HD, then should I reinstall tiger to that hard drive. What about all the applications that come with the computer? What will happen to them? How will I get those back? This may be a silly question.

Jan 17, 2006 9:57 PM in response to Rajiv Jauhar

You have a couple of options.

The restore disks have many of the applications for your mac including (if you need it) the system 9 folder for Classic and booting into 9 (if your mac can do that). They are available from Apple and I have seen the price from free (from a sympathetic person at an Apple Store) to $60 from Apple. The 9 folder can be dragged from a cloned disk. The other applications on the restore disk should be installed from the restore disk.

Another alternative is to use a clone with your applications, clone it back to the fixed hard drive, and use the Tiger install disk to do an archive and install on the clone of the clone. I'm not real fond of doing this because the chance of accumulated errors in an old system finding their way into a new system are increased.

Lastly, you could purchase iLife which has most of the restore applications plus more and they are updated. You would not get the 9 folder this way but if it is on the clone then just use the cloned 9 folder to restore that function.

Does this help?

Jan 19, 2006 2:09 PM in response to Carl Jerris

I ran techtool pro and it does not fix the problem but found 71 bad blocks and says that I have to reinitialize the disk. I could have done that without spending $129 dollars (including shipping)!!

I am trying to use the disk retrieve mode in techtool pro but I am only getting the files from 6 months ago and nothing since (especially iphoto).

Also, what hard disk drive would you recommend? The problem I have is a maxtor drive 160gb

Jan 19, 2006 3:52 PM in response to Rajiv Jauhar

Everyone you will talk to will tell you which hard drive maker is best. I have had problems with all of them so my feeling is that it is best to have several and keep backups as fresh as possible rotating through the hard drives. I also backup critical files to dvd.

Currently my mac has 2 Seagates and a Western Digital but the most recent purchase I have made was a Maxtor(for another mac I have). My firewire drive is a Hitachi so you can see that I have little preference. All of them work fine. Any of them could fail at any time. Just be ready for the failure when it happens.

Jan 19, 2006 4:14 PM in response to Carl Jerris

I cant begin to tell you how much I appreciate your help.
A mac is a great machine but when it has problems, a consumer at times feels there is no help out there but you have been great.

I was wondering about my other question in regards to only seeing files that are 6 months old and what my computer boots up to now. I cant see my newer files.

Jan 19, 2006 8:06 PM in response to Rajiv Jauhar

Well, I was sort of hoping to avoid that one since you have already had some bad luck.

There is a good utility for recovering files called Data Rescue.

http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/1133

You can download a free trial which is the full version but limited to recovery of one file. To get the rest requires paying the $100 to buy it. But at least you would find out if it works for you at no cost.

The reason for my hesitance is that for it to do the best job you shouldn't run other recovery programs on the files. You jumped in with TechTool pretty early on and I was hoping that it would do a better job. You can still try Data Rescue and hopefully there is no more damage done than what you started with. Read the documentation before starting. It does a good job of explaining what probably happened, how the files are cataloged on the hard drive and what Data Rescue will attempt to do.

It is also useful to read the reviews that were given by others who used this program.

Note: I have never had the cause to use Data Rescue. Situations like yours were either fixed by Disk Warrior. The times I tried to use Data Rescue the problems were due to mechanical problems with the drives that I had to repair to get my data. Others on this forum have had success with Data Rescue when other utilities failed so I'm passing it along.

Good Luck and let me know how it goes.

Jan 20, 2006 7:13 AM in response to Carl Jerris

I finally bit the bullet and reinitialized my hard drive. I "zeroed it". I then used the mac os initiation disk to transfer the files from my external hard drive. Then, I used backup 3.0 to restore my files (luckily, I back up weekly). So far, I think everything is there. Now I can go back to doing something easy like angioplasty.

I think I am going to buy another Hard Drive to make as my bootable drive. Can I have more than 1 bootable drive?

During this ordeal, I have learned the following points which I am going to pass on to all so it doesnt happen to them:

1. Have an external firewire hard drive and use it!!! I have a 300GB one and carbon clone and backup 3.0 regularly.

2. Use disk utilities regularly to check on the status of your hard drive.

3. Techtool Pro is not very useful when you already have a problem although it appears to be great for maintenance and preventive care.

4. Give your computer time to work. I think I rush too much and turn the system off using the power switch too often which can probably affect the hard drive.

5. Finally, I am so utterly amazed by the level of knowledge and helpfulness on these discussion boards. People always say that Mac(ers) are the smartest people and it is true.

thanks,
Rajiv

Jan 20, 2006 7:39 AM in response to Rajiv Jauhar

I have 3 hard drives in my mdd, each can boot this computer. One thing that macs have always done well is manage multiple sources of startup.

Despite what may or may not happen with human clones, hard drive cloning is good! Use it. It is your friend. I regularly test out questionable computer practices on a clone. If it works on a clone then I use it for my main system. Clones are un matched if your main drive goes down. Programs like SuperDuper can be set to automatically do incremental backups of your main system keeping you up to date at all times.

The best utility that I use on a somewhat regular basis is AppleJack. It is run from command line and can seem intimidating because it is all command line but it is really great.

http://applejack.sourceforge.net/

Turning off your mac is not necessary if it sleeps properly. I turn my mac on in the morning and leave it on till the end of the day or sometimes till the next day. With everything running you will use about 140 watts of power, deep sleep about 12 watts, and off 7 watts. Yup, it uses 7 watts when off to keep certain circuits alive.

Lastly, most of what we pass along on these forums is learned the hard way (like your experience) and by sharing our learned experiences. The whole experience base then becomes greater than the sum of the parts.

Jan 21, 2006 8:11 PM in response to Rajiv Jauhar

Rajiv,
I too have had some recent problems with my MDD, see:
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=288715&tstart=0
As you can see Discwarrior was the remedy. I am only mentioning this because of your disappointment with Techtool Pro. I was a bit dubious about using a repair utility because of bad experiences with a windoze machine. However Discwarrior was amazing! It does a large numer of tests and then creates a virtual copy of your system and allows you to compare the changes it will make from the original. If and when you are happy with the changes you then tell it to re-write your system. For me, as someone who has always been meticulous about running maintainance tasks and other housekeeping utilities, I was horrified with the number of errors that were reported. It might not help you now but it sure is an essential tool for any Mac user. It will also run a monitoring proceedure that keeps you informed of any possible upcoming problems with your system. Worth every penny!
Usual disclaimers apply, I am just a happy customer!

G4 867 MDD Mac OS X (10.3.9) Extra 120Gb HD, 1.75Gb SDRAM LG 4163B Superdrive

A Cardiologist with a broken "apple"

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