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  • Michael Northcutt Level 1 Level 1 (35 points)

    I haven't read all the posts in this thread. Just spouting my story.

     

    So far hate it. Bought a new MBP a week ago, early 2011, that came with Lion. After reading other threads for about an hour and my own limited experiences here with it, I've decided to go back to SL. Reasons being:

     

    • Hate the graphics. I find this to be a functional downgrade for me, not just subjective. It's a more difficult computing environment visually.
    • Limited Flexibility in Finder Prefs (not much of an upgrade for me).
    • iCal buggy and ugly. Poorly thought out too.
    • Address book looks just as lame
    • Gestures do nothing for me.
    • All the many other things I'm reading

     

    Mainly I just don't see any reason's to use Lion. Also I'm pretty appalled at the direction the OS is going. If they are trying to developed the perfect unified environment with iOS and this is just transitional OS, it comes at the expense of all the early adopters. I need Apple to demonstrate they care about pro users as well as general consumers or I might be tempted to switch to Windows down the road.

     

    I've been a mac user since 1995 (IIci), so I'm not just a PC guy coming in here. I have to use Win 7 at work and it's pretty **** nice.

     

    Some of the most basic things are STILL missing from the Finder in Lion:

    • Toggle through open docs? (cmd + tab) only toggles apps.
    • View and copy file paths
    • Rename shortcuts in Favorites without renaming actual files/folders
    • Add "Close" to the popup menu above minimized apps/docs in the Dock.
    • Ability to cut & paste files/folders in Finder as part of contextual (right click) menu (I know this is now "copy and move", but it's hidden from 90% of users who wouldn't know key command).

     

    I know there are work arounds for many things and not everyone wants things the way I do. But I just don't get how in 2011/2012, in one of the worlds premiere OS's, the advanced settings area (Finder>Prefs>Advanced area) only has 5 items. Really? How lame do they think we are? Just create and Advanced settings area, provide warnings for those who shouldn't be there, and let us set up our preferences and working environment.

     

    Sorry for the rant.

  • Michael Northcutt Level 1 Level 1 (35 points)

    Wow... this blog starred out the word dam that ends with an 'n'.

  • softwater Level 5 Level 5 (5,370 points)

    An excellent post save for the last sentence.

     

    That was no rant, but a well-argued summary of the complaints in the previous 1,291 replies to the OP.

  • Barney-15E Level 8 Level 8 (41,180 points)
    • Toggle through open docs? (cmd + tab) only toggles apps.

    cmd-`. Been that way forever.

    • View and copy file paths

    I view file paths in the path bar at the bottom of the finder window. When I copy a file and paste it into a text editor, it pastes the full file path. You can also show it in the title bar, too, with a hidden preference setting.

    • Rename shortcuts in Favorites without renaming actual files/folders

    That was the original way it worked, but it confused a lot of people. The aliases now only reference the original, even if you drag an alias into the sidebar.

    • Add "Close" to the popup menu above minimized apps/docs in the Dock.

    Could be useful. I've only used it a few times in Windows. I generally like to look at what I'm closing before closing it. If you want to close all windows of an app, hold down Option when closing (button or command). Which gets to the last one.

    • Ability to cut & paste files/folders in Finder as part of contextual (right click) menu (I know this is now "copy and move", but it's hidden from 90% of users who wouldn't know key command).

    I guess that's just lacking in any background in Mac OS. I always check the option key modifications when a new system is released. That is what the Option key is for, providing options to the base fucntionality. It's not just an alternate command key.

  • Alf Megson Level 1 Level 1 (95 points)

    cornelius wrote:

     

    Alf, why would you make a clone of your TM backup? Why not just make a clone of your OS X volume? A clone of your TM backup is an unnecessary duplication. A clone of your Macintosh HD would be bootable and you can simply boot from it and clone it back.

     

    cornelius

     

    That's what ReadyNAS Duo's do! They are a Network Attached Storage device which has two HDDs (in my case 2 x 2Tb) - one of which is a cloned backup of the other.

     

    It is not an uneccessary duplication because if the primary NAS drive fails, there is a clone of it - it's called redundancy.

     

    Alf

  • In Theory Level 1 Level 1 (15 points)

    Lion does help integrate desktop and mobile devices, so calendars, contacts, e-mail, music, books, etc should appear the same on desktop and every device. There may be a lot of changes under the hood, but beyond that integration factor I haven't found any advantages with Lion. Not fond of the iphone look on the desktop; I thought your phone was supposed to be a tiny computer, not that your computer was supposed to be a huge phone. I'm guessing that Apple did this in order to make Macs more attractive to the many millions of iPhone owners currently using PCs.

     

    I removed the silly "Launchpad" from the dock, and in "Mission Control" unchecked "show dashboard as a space" in order to restore the handy dashboard widgets (now have to press F12 to access dashboard; there is no dashboard icon in the dock).

     

    As with any update / upgrade I'm now faced with all the usual problems to fix. Hello, numerous permissions issues, drivers to reinstall, and software mysteriously disappeared or nonfunctioning. Also, the "save as" command has annoyingly been replaced by "duplicate," and you then have to save the second file with a new name. This makes two steps where there was just one, but maybe some users were complaining that they wanted the original file to remain open after renaming it?

     

    Not fond of the new "1850s" look of address book and iCal. Did Abraham Lincoln use a Mac? Perhaps in a future OS update Apple will provide a selection of GUIs, or allow developers to provide GUIs to the app store.

     

    The integration factor will be a huge advantage for many users, and due to the rights and marketing complexities that Apple builds into things such integration will likely soon become necessary for customers to use any or all of their products.

     

    My own opinion is that Lion was rolled out earlier than planned due to market pressures. For anyone considering upgrading to Lion (rather than simply buying a new machine) I'd wait until the next OS update, when Apple has addressed more of the iCloud / MobileMe / permissions transition issues ironed out. MobileMe has been extended until June, so maybe Lion will be a sleeker cat after that.

  • DChord568 Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)

    In Theory wrote:

     

    Lion does help integrate desktop and mobile devices, so calendars, contacts, e-mail, music, books, etc should appear the same on desktop and every device. There may be a lot of changes under the hood, but beyond that integration factor I haven't found any advantages with Lion. Not fond of the iphone look on the desktop; I thought your phone was supposed to be a tiny computer, not that your computer was supposed to be a huge phone.

     

    If I were the kind of guy who used sigs (which I'm not), that would be my new one. Brilliant!!

     

     

    I'm guessing that Apple did this in order to make Macs more attractive to the many millions of iPhone owners currently using PCs.

     

    This gets to the core of what's going on with the iOS-ification of the Mac system software. Maybe Apple has market research in hand that shows the average iPhone/SmartPhone user will one day buy a "real" computer.

     

    But I have my serious doubts. Young people have their entire lives on their SmartPhones. They use them for Email, for Facebook, to store/play their music (even at home, by plugging them into powered speakers), as their sole repository of photos and movies (they can edit them in place).

     

    With the exception of college students who still have to write papers (though it's not unknown for them to use their phones for this too), who among the younger generation needs a desktop or laptop computer any more? Apple has more or less abandoned the business sector, so even if you go out in the "real world" and have to bring your work home, chances are you're doing it on a PC.

     

    I'm just not sure I buy this "We have to make the Mac OS more like iOS so that young people will be comfortable when they buy Macs." Are they really ever gonna buy them at all in large numbers? If so, why?

     

     

    Also, the "save as" command has annoyingly been replaced by "duplicate," and you then have to save the second file with a new name. This makes two steps where there was just one, but maybe some users were complaining that they wanted the original file to remain open after renaming it?

     

    Personally, when I do a Save As, I'm done working in the original document and want to begin working in the new one. So I can't understand such "complaints." If they exist at all, they surely are dwarfed by the number of complaints about what one must now do in Lion to achieve what Save As used to do.

     

    By the way, it's MORE than two steps vs. one. Here is what happens in Pages:

     

    Save As, pre-Lion:

     

    1. Select Save As from the File Menu

     

    2. Give your new document a name in the dialog box that pops up*

     

    3. Click the Save button in the dialog box

     

    4. Begin working on your new document.

     

    * The dialog box will open to the same folder that holds your original file, which is where you want to save your new one 95% of the time.

     

     

    Duplicate in Lion:

     

    1. Select Duplicate from the File Menu

     

    2. Select Save from the File Menu so you can rename your new document

     

    3. In the dialog box that pops up, navigate to where you want to Save your new document**

     

    4. Click the Save button in the dialog box

     

    5. Switch back to your original document

     

    6. Close your original document

     

    7. Switch back to your new document

     

    8. Begin working on your new document

     

    ** The dialog box will open to a folder that is totally unrelated to your original document. In fact, it will likely be a folder that is unrelated to any work you've done in Pages. Thus, you must navigate to the folder your original document is located in.

     

    You may not do the steps for Lion in this exact order, but you'll have to do them all eventually.

     

     

    Shouldn't an "upgrade" make things more easy to accomplish, not more difficult?

  • In Theory Level 1 Level 1 (15 points)

    Cheers DChord. Steve Jobs said in an interview (one of the Mossberg video ones I think) that he believed desktops would be going away one day. Businesses would eventually be the only owners of such boxes, and all people would use advanced mobile devices. What we're seeing now is Apple's OSs moving in that direction.

     

    Apple is glamorizing fewer options and less functionality in the name of homogenization, setting the benchmarks for the new market, and in the process apparently trying to make desktop owners feel like hopeless luddites. My MacPro is not the equivalent of an 8 track player, and for that investment you had better believe I demand a lot more than an average iPhone user. Dumbing down the OS and software further will only turn me into a Linux user.

  • jmi2 Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)

    AND if you want to do it again, you have to do the duplicate procedure all over from the start!

     

    when i first saw "Save a version" i thought it would be the same as 'save as'; i have to save documents/reports in more than one file folder because they may have different connections to different actions, projects, etc.

     

    BTW, has anyone figured out when you click on "Save a version" where exactly it is save to? i've not found any...

  • Douglas Miner Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)

    I am an avid Mac, iPad and iPhone user and I hate the dumbing down of the OS as much as all respondents here, but I disagree that most pople want it that way. I think it is a huge mistake on Apple's part that will come back to haunt them. I am a high school music teacher and regularly use my Macs to do page layout, word processing, video editing (FCP), speadsheets, presentations, audio editing (Logic Studio), music scoring (Sibelius) and all of the communications stuff. There is no way I could ever get by with just a tablet or an iPhone. I can't see how any professional in any field could get by without a desktop or laptop without a full function OS and supported applications. If that is truly the direction Apple is going, then I fear that their computer business will soon come to and end. If they lose educatiors and creative types, who will be left? Sure, they can offer the dumbed down version as the default, but there should be optiions to cusomize, bring back cammands such as Save As, shut off the ridiculous pseudo-options like launch pad, versions and reume, and generally give those who want and need it, more control. (I really hate the retraction of Save As - it bugs me constanly - what a stupid idea.)

  • alwaysforever Level 1 Level 1 (75 points)

    It's been a while since Lion's release now, and I think that I've had enough time to answer this question properly.

     

    My reaction to using Lion, was to get it off of my computer as quickly as possible, and go back to Snow Leopard... which is a good, useful operating system.

     

    As a matter of fact, I made a point of picking up a Macbook Pro before they began to ship with Lion preinstalled. I'm really, really glad I did that.

  • Dr.Head Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    This doesn’t relate to “save as”, it’s just another observation. I have all of the usual complaints about Lion and I agree with those here who say it is dumbed down making it harder for serious workflow. My recent observation: since installing Lion I wondered about the resize tab in the lower right corner and the cursor changing to the diagonal arrows which I have to manipulate into place to grab the corner as opposed to putting the cursor hot point on and grabbing the corner resize tab as before. For some reason new TextEdit windows and others open all the way to the bottom of the screen. When I go to resize them I can’t just grab as before, I have to find the diagonal arrow which often triggers the dock to pop up so I have to move the cursor up to let the dock go down or launch something I don’t intend. I was using a Windows machine the other day, a rare occurrence since I absolutely hate them, and I noticed the same diagonal resize arrow. Which brings me to another point of contention: Apple seems to be slipping PC features into their OS as well as iOS junk. This is likely an attempt to draw in converts to Apple. So not only do we have to put up with the iOS stuff, we have to adopt to some PC junk, too. I will soon be buying my wife a new computer, even a PC if that’s what she wants, so I can have her iMac which I bought last June and which is still running SL 10.6.8. I will still tolerate Lion on my MacBook Pro with the hope it will eventually become Mac user friendly.

  • softwater Level 5 Level 5 (5,370 points)

    If Apple get their way and over the next ten years convert all those iPhone users into Lion computer users, chances are Microsoft will produce something like Snow Leopard, i.e., a fast, efficient, configurable and beautiful OS that those of us who do a little more than just play on Facebook actually want.

     

    It's a strange old world...

  • Chris Habig Level 4 Level 4 (2,225 points)

    mike/ wrote:

     

    BTW, has anyone figured out when you click on "Save a version" where exactly it is save to? i've not found any...

     

    It's saved as a snapshot in the same file, visible when you browse versions.

  • Dr.Head Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    I wonder how many people actually use this feature, and why those of us who never use it can't turn it off? Seems like a waste of memory and processor if it's never used, just lurking in the background waiting for something that isn't going to happen. And even if that's not the case, maybe I just want to know it's turned off.

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